Hi all - wow thank you for the input! For some reason a few of these comments never made it to me via email, so sorry for the delay in response. CHAS: I think I'm going to just go with a shorter stream, which will cut down on the height a great deal. I will wrap it around the pond (instead of going straight up the sloped ground) - which will make the head height less and also keep the flow calmer for froggies. I also decided that I will focus the main pond on fish; and I'm going to put a little, shallower pond tucked along the creek which will be just for frogs - with a pump maybe, but no filter or anything (my current frog pond has just a pump/waterfall, no filter, and the frogs are very happy and healthy there). Hopefully the frogs will natuarlly choose the little pond instead of the bigger pond, and even if they lay eggs in the lower pond, I can just move them up to the froggie pond. I at least will feel like I've done my part to provide a safe haven for them :) RSINGLEY: I had read a similar recommendation elsewhere of putting mesh and other media around the pump - I like the idea, though I do wonder what the negative effect of not filtering the larger particles will be? (seems silly to get a debris handling pump and then restrict the debris from getting in, but alas, the dilemma of tadpole lovers). FROGMAN4: You'd be right on the calculation but it's not all at a 3.5' depth, and it's an oval pond. If you picture an upside down oval wedding cake: the biggest layer is 16x13 but it's only about a half-foot deep (it's a rock shelf). The second layer is 14x11 and is 1 foot deep. The third layer is 11x8 and is 2 feet deep (so total depth at the bottom will be 3.5). I calculated each "layer" out as separate pond volumes; using the oval pond forumla of L x W x D x 6.7, the top layer is 696 gallons, 2nd layer is 1031, 3rd layer is 1179 = 2906 gallons. The third (bottom) layer will have sloped walls, too, which actually will cut down the gallons, but I'm fine with over-estimating. I have wavered back and forth a hundred times about going with a skimmer filter as opposed to an external mechanical filter. I still haven't hit the "place order" button on my pump/filter order, but I made up my mind last night that I was going to go with a Laguna max flow pump (2000 gal), pressurized filter (3200), and also have a waterfall bio filter at the top. Holding off on the drain for now, but I saw some that I can add later if the need warrants. Chose the external filter instead of skimmer because I didn't want to have to do 2 pumps, and I just felt that not having the pump at the bottom (which it wouldn't be if I put the pump in the skimmer) wasn't the best idea... which was my deciding factor. I hope what I'm choosing will be sufficient... weeks of research got me here, and I'm ready to just install all this already! :) MEGANMCA: Thanks for that link - it's very helpful! I did read that pipe diameter is important - I'm going to go with 1.5" and hope that's sufficient. My sister just installed the same pump/filter combo I'm using with 1.5" and it's a beatuful flow. Her waterfall is a little lower than mine, but I think it will suffice... If not, can add a 2nd pump but hoping I don't have to do that. Thank you all so much for the input - and as always open to any other thoughts/suggestions!

Hey there Miss Basilbird. I'm sorry I missed this thread last year if only because I missed saying 'Hey' to Laurazone5. Her posts are always interesting and full of usable information and she is a very nice person. That is not to say the rest of you are not nice people, too. Most of the people on this forum are good folks. LOL! I was able to acquire 10 frogs shortly before I broke my back and I distributed them in three separate parts of the yard. I haven't seen any of them but I know they are around because I heard them all summer long this year. I made the people who collected the leaves put some of them in strategic parts of the yard in case the froggies needed bedrooms so my neglect shouldn't be a disaster. DH hasn't noticed the leaves yet. I have had greenhouses of various types over the years and the interesting thing is that while I have had them damaged by the wind they have never been damaged by snow loads. The reason is that so long as the cover is reasonably tight the warmer air on the inside melts a thin layer of snow so the load is floating on a thin layer of snowmelt (water) and that allows the snow to follow the pull of gravity. It slides off before it can break through. I admit being a nervous wreck the first time my glass and aluminum greenhouse was subjected to a blizzard in Wisconsin but my fears were proved groundless. That is not to say that it is not possible, it just isn't very likely unless you built the greenhouse under the edge of the roof where there is a dropoff. The last time I tried to pull up Greg's website it did not have anything on it about his various designs although it did talk about his growing business. I was glad to see his success but now I can't send anyone to his site about the floating light bulb deicer. I am glad I bought one of his CDs when they were available. I made a deicer similar in concept to his and would be happy to tell anyone how it was made just so everyone knows it is a variation on a theme. I don't want to pass on a patented design if Greg managed to register it. I have my doubts that he was able to since I am sure I have seen similar contraptions used over the years. Mine certainly isn't as pretty as Greg's was but I didn't have the materials that he used at hand so I had to improvise my way around the construction much the way he did. In the end, I think the only similarity is we both used a light bulb as a heat source. I wish I could see the video you made. I'm going to see if I can find someone with an Apple. I still think your pond is great. I do think Laura is mistaken about the ledge being only a conductor rather than a collector of heat. So long as it is not totally engulfed by frozen ground it is a heat sink and will act as a collector of heat during any clear day and release heat at night. Even on cloudy days it is likely to be collecting heat from the ground below the frost line. The subject of heat sinks in construction is well documented. We became interested when we built our Earth Shelter house in Wisconsin. The river rock floor and the brick backwall in our greenhouse collected and retained heat that was released at night. It wasn't what you would call hot but it could be measured. I could never convince DH that we should put the cash into insulation for the greenhouse. It would have been much more effective. Sandy

Lynn, Yes Bullfrogs are now part of AZ's wildlife, however that does not mean we should perpetuate the problem by transporting them to locations where they don't exist (e.g. from the river to your pond) in spite of how neat it is to see a frog in your backyard. Many people are working hard to remove Bullfrogs from various locations. ItÂs a shame to hear that their work is unknowingly becoming undone. Bullfrogs are an environmental disaster that is costing all of us in one way or another- that includes financially. Who do you think pays for the recovery of listed species like Leopard Frogs? You do, I do, we all do. Your comment "To each his own" is really inappropriate here. I certainly understand and appreciate the enjoyment that comes from your pond and creating your own mini-ecosystem. However I think we should all do so in a responsible manner. I also believe it is now illegal to transport Bullfrogs. Not only do Bullfrogs eat anything they can fit into their mouth, but they are also one of the most prolifically reproductive animals in the world. They are also amazingly mobile. A friend of mine who studied Bullfrogs has told me that in a single summer they can move up to 8 miles!! These three traits make bullfrogs a nearly indestructible predator. Please do think twice about bringing them home. I, and IÂm sure many others would dearly love to be able to visit places like the Salt River and see native aquatic species again. Today that just isnÂt possible. Sincerely, Tlaconete

Marcia The worst problem with the cane toads is the breeding. They have spawned so heavily in the smaller pools to cause the whole system to turn into a smelly cesspool. They produce more tadpoles then have room to swim. I have netted as many as 3 gallons at a time . To my knowledge there is nothing that will eat them including snakes . Not sure if the toxins they produce are present in tadpole form but have noted that grackles will catch them but won't eat . I thought above ground pool would slow them down as they are so clumsy but they manage to get in anyway. They have been around s. florida for a long time but in the last 2/3 years have really become a problem. I'm guessing because of the drought.?? Anyway so far in april have netted 75 adults enough tadpoles to fill a 5 gallon bucket,removed enough egg masses to fill a gallon jar . Still have so many tadpoles the fish can't swim lol. Was reading an article about them in Austalia where the problem is 100 times worse than the US. In the research the ONLY thing they have found that will eat them is King Cobras. They prove fatal to native snakes as well as other native toads frogs. I have been putting the captured adults in a garbage can, tadpoles and eggs spread out on sand . haven't found a humane way to kill such large numbers . No I'm not going to put 75 toads in the freezer lol. Any other suggestions??? gary