This sounds like a charming addition to your already beautiful yard. I'm sure you'll love the koi!

Kate

Nova,

Congratulations on your koi pond. I'd love to see pictures. Did you buy any koi?

I know the place! Once when we were visiting friends in Mt. Dora we stopped in. Great people and fair prices. If we didn't live so far away (south Tampa) I would go there frequently.

tampaart-I guess I should proofread before I submit! Yes I did get two koi! The shubunkins are the giant goldfish and the 8 inchers are the koi! One is white with black and orange spots and the other is orange with white and black spots. They also had some beautiful Butterfly koi but they were a little pricey for this beginner. Maybe later on or in the next pond!!!!!!

nova

You had better have a screen over your pond especially in FL. or else watch how fast they dissapear...way to many predators here for a pond with fish (sitting ducks)

The little Koi get big really fast, our $5 fish have grown to $70 size in less than a year...We have an alligator decoy that seems to help with the "bad bird" problem (as well as a fairly vigilant border collie) and a motion activated sprinkler. Enjoy the fish, but don't name them...They are so much fun...they remind me of puppies.

BTW, Koi love to munch on lillies..

nova,
Do you knmow the name of the store in Mt.Dora?

SusieQ, I have had ponds with fish all my gardening life in Florida, and have managed to keep most of them safe, most of the time. It isn't impossible at all. Of course, some yards are more prone to predators stopping by than others, but there are plenty of tricks to keep your fishies safe. My favorite one is just to add a pipe in the center of the pond for them to swim into when threatened. With good cover like that, most predators can't get them. If you have determined raccoons, other steps might be necessary, but plenty of cover is the first thing to try.

Shubunkins are my favorite goldfish, Nova! Sounds lovely. I'm sure you will soon be able to tell what steps you need to take to keep your fish safe, but it won't always be necessary to add a screen over the pond.

And Nova, I've been meaning to write you for several weeks...sadly, all three of the roses I dug for you froze solid in their pots during those four bad nights. I kept hoping they would come back, but the roots have now turned to mush, so they're goners, I'm afraid. I'm SOOO sorry. I wish I had brought them up to you sooner, as you might have been able to save them in your greenhouse.

Be sure to show us pictures of your pond and the new residents. And you can bet I'm going to check that place in Mt. Dora out very soon. I'm hoping to get a stock tank in the next couple of weeks, and I'll be looking for fish and plants.

Marcia

This is my third pond and I have kept fish in all of them with very little problems from predators. As Marcia said giving the fish a good place to hide is best. I have a piece of black "sewer pipe" for them to hide in. Also having depth (the deepest part of the new pond is 3 feet) helps. And no "beaches". Raccoons prefer to wade for dinner, not swim!

Marcia - I am sorry to hear about the roses! I was down a Felix's a couple of weeks ago and am happy to report the roses you gave him were looking great!

tampaart - Here is a picture of the pond, I tried to get a picture of the fish but they seem to be a little camera shy!

nova

It's beautiful, Nova! Nice job, you guys!

You know, it never even occurred to me that the roses might freeze. None of the ones in the ground did, but I guess the roots weren't warm enough in the pots. I didn't bring anything in, but Mark grabbed a few things that looked obvious to him as needing protection. He didn't know I had the roses over on the shelves, or he would have brought them, too. And I didn't think to ask him, as I never worried about them freezing. I'm so, so sorry!

Felix is a good daddy to his roses, for sure. They are much happier with him than they ever were with me. They are pampered!

I'm planning to price livestock tanks tonight. I want to get one about 6' across or so, and Mark will probably put bricks around the outside of it. Instant pond. No digging for us old folks who are worn out just trying to replant the garden. I like the idea of the high sides, too, as the dachshunds won't likely fall in (or chase a lizard into the pond). And I think it will be deep enough for some lilies and a lotus or two. Not three feet, but about two, maybe.
I guess I should start checking with local feed stores?

You have inspired me, Nova!

Marcia

Marcia-For mini waterlilies 18 inches is enough. I have grown native lotus in two feet of water with success too. I have lots of "pups" right now off the mini purple waterlily so if you want a couple let me know. I also have Lizard's Tail, Water Celery, and a couple of LA Iris that I can share. Let me know if you are interested and maybe we can meet up at one of the upcoming swaps!

nova

Ooooh...you have EVERYTHING I want, Nova!! But sadly, I have nothing at this point to trade. I'm HOPING I will have some things by Melissa's swap on the 25th. I plan to go, anyway, just to say hi to everyone. Are you going there?

I NEED to get my pond set up before then, for sure. Though I do have a couple of small container water gardens started. With cannas, a dwarf water lily (white), some black taro, and some parrotfeather. But I'm longing for a bigger pond and some goldfish.

Marcia

Nova,your pond looks so good. I'm very impress. You know the predator that I've had the most diddiculty are the
"blue heron".
How are the gingers that I gave you, doing? Mine are beginning to come out of the ground. The "disney"
that I told you the name is"Hedychium coccineum" and here is a picture from a previous year.

LOL!
yeap,I have diddiculty.
Can you guys tell? Lol
Felix

I've had my share of "diddiculty" lately, too, Felix, so don't feel alone in that regard! Your gingers are gorgeous!! That first one is amazing! I think I may still have some pinecone ginger hiding in the pot ghetto, but I'm not sure. I've not had much luck with others...they get straggly and fall over and just don't look happy. Probably need more TLC than I've ever given them.

Felix are you going to Melissa's swap? PLEASE say yes!! Haven't seen you guys in so long!

Marcia

Beautiful pond Nova, thanks for sharing the picture. About 700-1,000 gallons? Beautiful job. I went a little bigger, 8,000 gallons! (Ugh is right - by shovel and wheelbarrow).

Luckily for me, we don't have any raccoons on the island, just possums that don't like the pond.

Marci, I say yes. If their is no more diddiculty.
Felix

You're all forgetting Bobcat's, panthers & foxes,feral cat's seagulls,egrets, cranes,gator's if you live near water and watch out for water snakes taking up residence, we had neighbors put fish in watch fish disappear, put fish in watch them go away, finally they gave up on the fish aspect of the pond.. also bird feeders not a good idea in FL. have seen them draw rodents who in turn drew big snakes (big rattlers) it's best to let nature do it's thing naturally and wild things to find their own way in FL. living, they don't need our help unless wounded, then you can rescue them and take to a sanctuary or somewhere.

SusieQ, I'm 65 years old and a Florida native. Yes, all those things exist in Florida, but they are certainly not a problem in every yard. Some yards might be plagued with one or two types of critters (most of which can usually be outwitted), but I've never seen a yard that was under attack from ALL of the above, at once. People have been enjoying both ponds and birdfeeders in Florida forever, and had very good results. I would personally never live without several birdfeeders in my backyard, and I'm not overrun with rodents or rattlesnakes.

If keeping your yard free of ponds and birdfeeders is how you choose to set up your garden, that's fine. I don't have a problem with that. But telling others those things are not a good idea in Florida is simply not true. I've lived everywhere in this state from Sanibel Island (home to many gators, snakes and predators) to the urban environment I'm in now. Nothing has ever prevented me from enjoying ponds and birdfeeders. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Each to his own idea of the perfect garden, I say. And if that includes birdfeeders and ponds, go for it.

Marcia

Hey there,yes you. Marcia,I'm talking to you my friend.
Do you want me to bring you the gingers to melissas's swap?
Felix

Beautiful pond, Nova, and having koi must be so much fun. I have mosquito fish in my pond only :) I live too close to the Hillsborough river to have anything bigger than mosquito fish :[

One of these days, I would love to trade, for a mini water lily...maybe some lotus tubers? :)

Lions and Tigers and Bears - Oh My! Why don't we just roll up the sidewalks and hide in our houses! UGH!

SusieQ: What part of the country did you come from before moving to Florida? I'm sure they had animals too?

Olya, watcha want to trade for a mini water lily? Also have plenty of lotus seeds, easy to grow. Let me know.

SusieQ, Living on the edge of the National Forest by a lake, I can assure you I have plenty of wildlife that visits my yard. But I do also have bird feeders and ponds. I have had Banded Water Snakes move into the pond and had bears carry off my bird feeders. But rather bemoan the loss of an occasional fish or bird feeder, I rather enjoy the visits by the "wild things". They were here first and have few places to live in our over populated state anymore so if they help themselves to an occasional "free lunch" I just accept it as the price I pay to be able to sit in my backyard and watch them and their many friends who are kind enough to let me live among them.

Olya-Come summer time I will have lots of mini waterlilies for you. The ones I have (no-name purple and yellow] pup readily and I am forever scooping babies out. I will get some started for you and let you know when we are next heading your way.

nova
from where the wild things are!

Well said, Nova! For me, Florida is actually the BEST place to have a pond...no need for heaters in the winter, or de-icing equipment. And raccoons, snakes, herons and bobcats live in every state in the union. If we worry too much about those, we couldn't have ponds anywhere.

I like your philosophy, Nova...live and let live, and don't waste time agonizing over possible pond predation that may or may not ever happen. I've lost fish once in awhile (ALL to neighborhood dogs, and nothing to do with "Florida" in any way). And I've had bird feeder issues from time to time that had to be addressed. Squirrels usually. Also definitely not restricted to Florida. But overall, I've enjoyed fish for years and years, and had so many wonderful birds visit my gardens that I wouldn't dream of trading.

Are ponds and birdfeeders right for everyone? Of course not. But for those who enjoy the sound and sight of water & colorful fish, and the movement, energy, and beauty of wild birds, they are a MUST-HAVE, if at all possible. And you can have successful ones in any state in the union, so if that's what you want, make it so! If Nova can do it living in the midst of the Ocala Forest, so can you in your subdivision or townhome, or suburban yard.

The whole point of gardening is to bring nature into your yard, and for many of us, that includes all the accompanying birds and wildlife we can attract. When and IF problems arise, there are solutions 95% of the time.

And Nova...I LOVE your property about as much as any I've ever visited...so natural and peaceful. I know you enjoy every aspect of it! Good for you! I hope your new pond brings you MUCH pleasure!

Marcia

To all you naysayers, first of all I never said these predators would be in all yards...I did however comment on seeing all of these predators in our neighborhood, panthers, bobcats (even had pics. in our local paper) we had a huge water moccasin at our door,had to kill, when living up the street at prior home near a lake, and took pics. myself of huge gators in said lake and lying on the bank,and watched egret's steal fish,and at this home saw a beautiful red fox run down our rear swale, and saw big hawks, attack small birds and rip them apart or fly off with them, as they will do with small animals also...and as we are Rver's and have visited many, many of our 100+ state parks around FL. (all around) leaving soon for one up in the panhandle, have seen lot's of deer, racoon's, gators, and yes even the Fl. black bear, I love to photograph the real FL. so don't try to tell me, I don't know what I speak of, I am simply presenting some facts of living in FL., there are many preditors here...P.S. went the bird feeder route,years ago, was warned by neighbors,(took it down) and sure enough have seen rodent's since at a neighbors feeder, and also saw a pic. in our newspaper of an 8' rattler at the base of a feeder, that the woman of the house shot. So ya'll do what ya want, with this information, and have a nice day ya'll!!!

Hmmm...the naysaying isn't coming from US. We're all saying yes. And again, no one is saying YOU should have a pond or a feeder, if it's not your thing. Just that Florida is no different than any other state when it comes to possible predators (with the exeption of gators, which aren't in all 50 states, of course). Every other predator you mentioned can be found in nearly every state of this union, so I guess no one should ever have a pond or water garden? Predators are out there, but for most of us, they won't ever be a serious problem with a pond or birdfeeder. And as I say, when a problem does crop up, there are solutions. Same as in any other state.

The thought that Florida should be a no-feeder, no-pond zone is just silly. It's all a matter of personal choice, and I choose to enjoy mine forever. Where I live, I don't even get RACCOONS in my yard, let alone gators, bobcats, herons, foxes, and especially panthers! (If only that was all it took to have panthers visit!)

Now back to the conversation at hand, which is celebrating Nova's new and beautiful pond, which, btw, is already a done deal, in the ground and planted. It looks beautiful, Nova, and I hope you have many, many years of enjoyment from it. And from any and all wildlife that decide to drop by for a visit. My favorite thing with my last pond was that it became home to some beautiful leopard frogs. Boy could they jump! And I thoroughly enjoyed both my black racers and my yellow rat snake that would drink from the water's edge. The only time I lost any fish at all was when a neighbor's chocolate lab decided to go swimming in my little pond, but the damage was cleaned up quickly, and all was well again.

Please continue to show us pictures of the developing water garden, Nova. I love to see what you are doing up there.

Marcia

Amen Marcia and Nova! Wonderful images and more importantly a wonderful POSITIVE-mentality towards this great state of ours.

Enjoy

Some of my "babies"

SusieQ - YOU don't have to have a pond or a bird feeder in YOUR yard but I choose to have several in mine. I embrace the wildlife that share their environment with me. I have chased 'gators out of my jon boat, watched hawks thin the dove and squirrel population, had eagles perched in my trees, cursed the deer that trim my roses, kept my dogs locked up so bears would wander off somewhere else and am forever fighting the armadillos who love to eat the earthworms in my beds. This is MY choice to live this way but it doesn't have to be yours. I moved to the forest for a reason and the "Wild Things" were part of it. If I lose my koi to them, then so be it! If I get rats or 'rattlers at my feeders then I will adapt because that is what the "wild things" have been trying to do for years.
I do want to mention too that I am a third generation Florida native who has spent time in some of the few remaining areas of "Wild Florida" in nothing but a tent. No AC, no microwave and no generator spoiling the sounds of nature, where no RV can go.

nova

Nova, honey...you ROCK!!! You, too, Tampaart! And Tampaart, your koi are stunning! Absolutely gorgeous. Isn't your pond on Davis Island? The one with the chairs sitting around the beautifully landscaped edge? (You know I'm OLD and I get my folks mixed up all the time, but I think I'm picturing the right pond. I remember I saved photos to show Mark for when we finally have time to do an inground pond.)

In the meantime, I just ordered a 6' round galvanized stock tank to be delivered Friday. Set it down, fill with water, instant pond! I'm tired of waiting for funds and time to be right for the inground one. Mark will probably enclose this tank in bricks, since we have so many, but with or without the bricks, I am going to love having a small pond for some waterlilies, lotus, and goldfish. I haven't gone this long without one in years. Of course, I'll have to reposition the 3 birdfeeders which are in that area right now, but that's okay. The pond will rule supreme! Center stage for now. And if I ever get tired of it being there, I can drain it and relocate it. Voila! What could be an easier way to enjoy a water garden and some fishies.

Nova, thanks for helping me find a source for the tank! Can't wait to see you at Melissa's!

Marcia

Good memory Marcia,

I'm on Davis Islands and it's 8,000 gallons. Four feet deep and I've been know to get in from time-to-time (but only when it's WARM) not like today. brrrrrrrrr But this is Nova's posting and I wouldn't want my pictures to compete with hers. Her pond is beautiful!

There's nothing like camping in the wild, listening to nature and searching for wild orchids and then taking pictures of them (only).

tampaart-LOVE the pictures of your koi! It encourages me! My pond is only about 600 gallons so I am starting off slowly with only the two koi. Do you run a filter on your pond? I am trying to go filter-less but don't know if it is doable on a larger pond.
And one other question for you. Do you have rocks on the bottom of your pond? I have a friend who also keeps ponds and he swears that it is impossible to keep a pond clear unless you do. Internet info runs about 50/50 on the debate so your input would be appreciated.

nova

Nova,

Thank you for the kind words. Take your time: Slow is good! Remember that koi need space and when crowded get diseases and sick. It is better to have less and have them absolutely beautiful than too many and have them suffer.

I do have an external filtration system. Two bottom drains and a skimmer connected to a large bead filter and pump. I also run a UV light to keep the bacteria and algae down. Just think of your pond as a giant aquarium and the same principles apply.

I am of the belief that rocks on the bottom are BAD BAD BAD. Your friend is RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT! When you have rocks on the bottom, fish poop and food and everything else sinks and creates a dead zone of highly toxic material. If you do not clean it out yearly (take out all the rocks, clean them and the bottom) you will have issues and problems continuously. Slick bottom is best and even then you must sweep and vacuum and clean to prevent build-up of junk. See, ponds are hard work but the benefit when you walk outside and see your "babies" playing makes it so worth it.

You're on the right track and ENJOY IT!

Thank you Nova :)

I am thinking of adding a few water frogs to my pond - I love frogs and toads :) Though, pretty soon the pond will be filled with tadpoles of all kinds! It is fun listening to all the toad and frogs love songs in spring :]

Another fantastic pic, Tampaart! You are definitely doing it all right. Nova, if you manage to get a really good balance of plants to fish, you can have surprisingly good results with no pump or filter, especially since you have a waterfall for aeration. But I think it's tricky getting the balance just so. In my smaller container water gardens, I never have any problems, but don't know if I could do a bigger one without some kind of filter. But TA's 8,000 gallon pond is surely easier to keep nice with a good system.

Have you ever me "the pond man" that comes to Seminole Springs Butterfly Festival. (A country fellow with a long white beard?) He has enormous ponds at his place and doesn't ever filter anything. He manages to find the perfect balance for them all, and is very interesting to talk to about his system. It's just another way to enjoy water gardening, but I suspect you have to be really good at mastering his technique to not have problems.

I agree with TampaArt on the rocks. Sometimes I put them in the bottom of my container gardens for looks, but I always end up regretting it. I think in a big pond, I would probably be very unhappy if I did it. And I'm not sure why anyone would think it would keep the pond cleaner. I mean, I can see doing it for aesthetic reasons, but it seems like it would be counter-productive for cleanliness. Of course, I'm just surmising here.

Where are the rest of our ponders? Anna? Goldenpond? You ladies have really BIG beautiful ponds. I know there are others.

Thanks for your input, TA.

Marcia

Tampaart - My friend is the one who is insisting I need rocks in the bottom of my pond. Not me. In my very first pond I had rocks in the bottom of it and regretted it constantly. It did stay clear but I think it was more because the fish couldn't stir the bottom up as much. That pond was smaller than my current effort so I was wondering if size made a difference. But thanks for your reassurance that I am on the right track!

nova

Nova, tell your friend he/she has ROCKS IN HIS/HER head! laughing

Better than in the POND!!!

Marcia

Congrats on your new fish.
I have a few koi too. My pond is new this year and I initially had put in pond pebbles because I thought it looked nice. I soon learned that it was not a good thing to do with koi. I finally decided to take them out and boy was I suprised to see just how much stuff was under the rocks. I do have a good bio-filter but it apparently wasn't getting the crud under the pebbles. I'm glad I took them out. I can see the koi better now anyways. They still have some plants to hide in so they are happy.

Hi
Interesting debate lol. When I first thought of having a water garden a neighbor told me I couldn't "YOu'll be up to your elbows in snakes ,gators and mosquitoes before you get back into the house "lol
Built the first not as a watergarden but as a place to store rainwater but evolved into a water garden overtime.
Have had all kinds of problems EXCEPT the three metioned lol. To me ,Florida seems like the ideal location for a watergarden fish pond whatever .Can't imagine dealing with snow and ice and the predators lol.
One question for you old hands . Have you ever found a way to keep Marine ,Cane toads out of the pool?? They are incredibly prolific ,noisy, and keep all other types of frogs away . I thought above ground would help ,guess again lol. I suppose because of the drought they are particularly obnoxious this year . Thanks gary

Oh boy, Gary! I can't imagine having to deal with those awful, invasive things! I hope they don't spread to our area (wishful thinking, probably). Are they too numerous to kill individually? Are they breeding in your ponds? Perhaps there is a treatment that will get rid of their eggs? Maybe even a fish that would dine on them?? Just pondering aloud here, as I've no experience with them at all, but I'm really curious as to what your solution might be. Hope we get some good suggestions.

As for the debate on having a pond or birdfeeder in Florida, to my mind the problems are exactly the same ones you have anywhere else, with the exception of gators, and they aren't likely to move into a small garden pond, especially if you don't live on the water. (Nothing to sustain them for very long in the typical water garden, for one thing.) The other things are always issues with ponds, and many solutions exist to help in the majority of the cases. Ponds, just like "regular" gardens, are always going to present people with some challenges. But also like regular gardens, most can be dealt with.

Marcia

Marcia
The worst problem with the cane toads is the breeding.
They have spawned so heavily in the smaller pools to cause the whole system to turn into a smelly cesspool. They produce more tadpoles then have room to swim. I have netted as many as 3 gallons at a time .
To my knowledge there is nothing that will eat them including snakes . Not sure if the toxins they produce are present in tadpole form but have noted that grackles will catch them but won't eat . I thought above ground pool would slow them down as they are so clumsy but they manage to get in anyway. They have been around s. florida for a long time but in the last 2/3 years have really become a problem. I'm guessing because of the drought.?? Anyway so far in april have netted 75 adults enough tadpoles to fill a 5 gallon bucket,removed enough egg masses to fill a gallon jar . Still have so many tadpoles the fish can't swim lol.
Was reading an article about them in Austalia where the problem is 100 times worse than the US. In the research the ONLY thing they have found that will eat them is King Cobras. They prove fatal to native snakes as well as other native toads frogs.
I have been putting the captured adults in a garbage can, tadpoles and eggs spread out on sand . haven't found a humane way to kill such large numbers . No I'm not going to put 75 toads in the freezer lol. Any other suggestions??? gary

Gary,

Growing up in south Florida on a lake we too were inundated with Buffo marinus. I would capture 20-50 at a time. My dad, being the engineer took a garbage can, and poured two cups of bleach into it when it was filled with toads. The clorine killed them almost instantly and we were able to bag and throw them away.

Hope this helps - it's either the CTF or the Buffo's that we have to fight nowadays.

Well, Gary, it's obvious to me that you have to acquire a King Cobra for your backyard! Ya gotta do what WORKS, man!

Seriously, what a royal pain! You must get pretty frustrated. Is it possible to cover your ponds at night, and remove the covers in the morning? (I'm guessing they spawn at night?) Maybe they would help keep them out? I swear, I'm not going to complain about CTF's any more. Oh, I'm still going to kill every single one of them I can catch, but I'll TRY to keep the complaining to a minimum. Obviously, it could be worse.

I like the bleach idea...kills and sanitizes in one easy step!

Of course, you DO have to catch them first. But I take it they are slow moving and clumsy, eh? (No need to be fast when you are deadly to predators.) If you don't want to wait until you have a garbage can full, you could use a 5-gallon bucket with a lid. But that doesn't stop the eggs and tadpole problems. Covering the pond seems like the only thing that might work. Do you find yourself CURSING the man, or ship, or plant that carried the first one of these creatures to our shores? It's always the exotics that cause us the most grief.

Nova, dahlink...at least you don't have BUFO MARINUS to contend with. I'd take bears, foxes, and watersnakes ANY day over them. And those accursed CTF's! (Ooops...I said I wasn't going to complain about them any more, didn't I?)

Marcia

Gary - I feel for you! When I lived in South Florida I had bufos so bad that every morning before I could let my dogs out I had to do a yard patrol with a pitch fork [not subtle but did the job!] and a five gallon bucket. Some mornings I would fill the bucket! It sometimes seemed for ever one I "eliminated" two more would replace it!

Marcia- No bufos here! Just these little guys -

nova

That's a lovely little leopard froggie, right? So cute! They are my favorite besides the green treefrog. Nova, you do have bufos up there, ya know...bufo terrestris is our native southern toad. And there are 2 other native bufos in Florida that are great to have around. Only that bufo marinus is bad...BAD, BAD, BAD!! I don't want no steeenkin' cane toads moving in around here!!!! (Have pitchfork, will travel!)

Marcia