A Home Depot den found in the garbage. Appeared 'dead as a door-nail.'Took it for free for the ceramic pot. Never repotted, stuck it outside all summer - notice it sent two new growths (see green) over summer and surprised me with a spike from the 'dead cane.' Never repotted, still sitting in the same mud (dry, probably pro-mix),made tons of roots over the summer - in the same ceramic pot.

{{gwi:139548}}

A little sunlight outdoors, I got a freeby and not a minute of work.

Jane

Mike's golden word "observe" is exactly right. I recently rescued a dying oncidium intergeneric from the office. Now, just watching the pbs, being extra careful with watering and keeping it in moderate light - as close to no stress as possible. Eventually it'll start growing again. I wouldn't think of repotting it now.

John

What Cj and Mike say are excellent points. I came back to add, when one buys from a grocery or HD the intent is not for re-bloom as it is in a g/h that specialises in orchids. It is a table decoration meant to be tossed when the bloom cycle is finished. Therefore, it really doesn't matter what the plant is potted in. Cj beautifully explains why buying from those retailers is a risky business. One should have low expectations of the plant. The force bloom is obvious if one has dens in their collection. That is the first warning sign going into the purchase it was raised a la "Puppy Mill" fashion. Expect problems, consider yourself lucky if they don't happen. Mike's post further explains why/ how to improve the likelyhood of future health in a poorly grown Big Box plant. This is a really good post topic. The morale of the story, resist the impulse buy temptation. If it's got a tag or you can use your phone camera to research/buy it later from a g/h.

I agree. There is an epidemic of "re-pot-itis" hitting this board. It only serves to further irritate a stressed plant

Clara

There are substantial differences among orchid sources. I have my own reasons for re-potting, to move to a fast-draining medium. I have seen lots of roots and in my opinion ALL plants from HD or TJ should be watered lightly and re-potted very soon after you get them.

From other sources that I have had experience with such as Santa Barbara Orchid Estates which uses the same medium as I do, I assume that the roots are fine and leave it alone.

Orchids are very hardy and given half a chance will come back. But is they don't have to deal with masses of dead roots and decomposed medium they will do it much faster.

I repot most of the time, right after I get the plant. Mainly, to get rid of old medium and switch from plastic pots to clay. I have my own watering schedule for 400+ orchids, and having repotted the new acquisition, I now do not risk overwatering/etc
Whatever works for the grower :)
Olya

I don't buy orchids from the BBS's anymore. I did when I first got into orchids, but more often than not I always had a big mess to deal with and back then I didn't have much of a clue what I was doing. Some survived and are beautiful plants and bloomers today, others however took many many months to recover or failed outright. It's just not worth it. My sweet little niece, about two weeks ago bought me a phal she found at Lowe's "on sale". One little flower remained on the spike, lime green with a rose golden lip, very pretty, but of course there was no tag. The leaves looked very healthy. BUT, It's from Lowe's, it coming directly out of that pot, no waiting to see how it does, not me. The spike was a different plant from the plant with the leaves. Two "plants" in the same pot. The spike plant had NO leaves and NO roots. I pitched it. The plant with the leaves had all dead roots, and there was enough sprag in that pot for at least 4 pots. This is what I was left with after taking off all the dead black rotting roots.
{{gwi:201877}}
You can just see a new root starting after two weeks in the ICU of my greenhouse. I have to try and save this thing because of my niece, but I surely wouldn't have bit this off for myself.
Your Dend may be OK ....they are really tough and LOVE Florida. I'd set it up in good light in a clay pot with maybe some **barely** damp lava rock in the bottom. Just set the plant right on top of the rock and wait. You may very well see new roots/new growth in two or three weeks. GOOD LUCK!!!
Pat.............

In general (except winter), I repot orchids immediately after purchase - esp. ones from Hawaii, 2 words: bush snails. Plus, I want to understand/see how the root system is on my new plant - the abuse it's been through etc.

I feel one cannot make absolute pronouncements about repotting (or light), it's up to what the grower thinks the plant is telling her/him. One example, of many: I bought a Doritaenopsis NoID from Trader Joe in early Feb 2007 in spike. Re-potted it in July 2007, while in bloom. Root growth happily exploded in new media within a week as well as new leaf. The plant is still in bloom now, 10 months later. alvin

I guess we will never all agree upon this issue, however, it is well known on which side of it I stand. It blows my mind that in the face of impassioned, commonsense advice from a poster like Mike and the eloquence and wit of a poster like Clara and the steady as she goes wisdom of a poster like Jane that I am needed at all to throw a word in to the wise. But I am. There is still resistance. I can feel it. Growers like Richard and Olya do not have to make apologies but there are others out there who do not have the experience and skill put they are itching to pull the ripcord on the bag of Schultz mix. They can't wait to get busy soaking rootballs and teasing away bits of stuck on bark and snipping off suspect roots. Think that is doable with a peat plug?? Clara posted less than an hour after the O.P. and agreed that the situation was lamentable but that, "The den would have been alright as it was" and it would have been. With good culture it would live as well as anything from Oak Hill or EOOM. Do mutts from the Northshore Animal Shelter have any less mortality than an AKC certified purebred? Do you treat them any differently because of their origins? The enlightened ones are not against repotting, only against frivolous repotting. Rats my time is up. Later.

H

I really don't think the OP needed a lecture on her plant buying habits. I picked up two immense phaius from a box store last spring for $15 each. I wouldn't have passed that up waiting to find them at a more respectable nursery.

Do what Pat suggested, stick it outside and forget about it until spring.

Howard we have to get you a wireless card and an account! Just when it was getting good. There is a difference between Olya and Richard; Experience and Conditions. Indoors growing is an entirely different "animal". The conditions will never be that of z-9 or a g/h in Ca. I can't agree with Alvin that it is an indivdual choice, light and re-potting. There is only 1 culture. We are with somewhat compromised culture indoors from the start. We must give them the best from the start. Go easy. See how it goes. Observe

Continuing with the analogy of a puppy mill. Many times those dogs are line bred en masse. They have congenital defects. They are expensive rescues. Sound familiar? Do we love them any less than a pound mutt? No. But we will certainly "baby" them more than we would a better bred dog or a healthy mutt. Their life expectancy is usually diminished one. Would we plunge a newly arrived sick puppy into a cold flea bath upon arrival? Would we chop it's tail off with a sterile blade b/c it's too long? or would we give him good food, care, exercise, attention discipline and love? See how it goes?

Clara

no one is "lecturing" the OP. This is a discussion board last time I checked. "Another reason to re pot upon purchase!" That is advise. We're discussing. The OP understands that it was a risk buying from a big box. We are offering alternatives to pot pulling. Some don't agree with the advise of repotting a new plant as the first step to cultural fitness. 2 sides to every coin. A fine history trail to leave behind for others if kept on point.
Mike

I always repot when I get a plant, and I always have. Why? For the same reason Richard does: to put them in a faster draining media. I know, for me, telling me to 'water lightly' doesn't work because I'm a pathological overwaterer. If someone can't keep something alive in whatever medium because they can't help but tip back the watering can (or the opposite), I think it's definitely in their best interest to repot as soon as possible. It's a heck of a lot easier to learn how to grow something when it slowly wastes away rather than crashing and burning in three days (been there).

Good thing is, you bought a dend. They're virtually impossible to kill once you realize what's going on. Laura and Pat have the right idea. Until it starts growing again, ignore it. I've got a couple that are in the back of my growing area, rootless (thanks, mom), and they're just starting to put out new root nubs after six months.

G'luck!

Stacy

You can add me to the repot on purchase list!
I like to look at the whole plant when I get it and looking at the roots really tell me a great deal on how the plant had been grown. Also I can see just what the state is of the mix the plant is in. This helps me gauge whether or not I will repurchase from the source again.
But my main reason remains the fact that my culture requires a more open mix because of the daily spraying.
How else can I grow a Paph. delenatii on a piece of wood??
But seriously I see no problem on repotting at any time of the year though I prefer to do so when new growth begins or has developed enough so that I do not clumsily knock the little bugger off in repotting!!!

The biggest issue, to my view, is that the OP has a plant now that has been abused to force a bloom and whose roots have been neglected and damaged. Now, since we're dealing with a Dendrobium, and it is three days to december, that plant *wants* to be going dormant. In order to live, it *should* be growing new roots and leaves, but it's just ben through the stress of blooming and is lacking in roots, now, yes? It has actually probably JUST been shipped halfway around the globe, and on top of all that, it is now in the middle of a North American fall... I just think it makes more sense to spend a little more at a reputable vendor (there are so many in Fl) than to try to nurse this plant through stunted growths in bad light when it wants to take a break and rest.

Plus, as someone with an interest in breeding, I am leery of the pot plant orchids.

-Cj

The problem with this discussion board is some people are not permitted to discuss unless we are agreeable with the few. The few only permit what their perception is of good culture. No one else is permitted to have any thoughts, given any credit for knowing their abilities and understanding their growing conditions, it is a do as I say and usually in a very derogatory manner.

I, for one, expect my plants to grow in my conditions and I don't need to learn how to grow a den in a wet sponge. I also have the ability to repot a plant and not have it die. I'm sorry if others haven't learned the secret and their plants struggled. When I repot a plant, it is for the long term health of the plant, not for instant gratification.

There should be no discussion on this thread about indoor growing - Lellie lives in zone 9 Santa Maria Island - and if memory serves me, grows on her lainai. She has been given some great advice on how to resusitate this plant, some from her area. Hopefully she will revive the plant and enjoy it for years to come. If not, she probably goes to the grocery weekly.

I wonder if a poll was taken about how or where you acquired your first orchid, overwhelmingly, it would be big box, grocery, etc. Addictions start like that - one at a time. You either fail and move on or you progress up the ladder.

Brooke

At the risk of angering the "enlightened ones" and leading astray the "others out there who do not have the experience and skill" and keeping in mind that this post should have ended when "Clara posted less than an hour after the O. P. bla bla bla"...........

I am here to tell you _Howard_ to get over yourself. You come off sounding like you are talking to a bunch of kids that have disappointed you oh!! so very much. Your post is your ***opinion*** of yourself and others. You do NOT write the LAW of orchid growing!!! Not only do I repot the day or within days of getting a new orchid but I give everything a BATH with soap and water!! I do not leave new orchids sitting on top of a rotting, soured, highly acid, sticking mess. I get them into a medium so they will do well in MY greenhouse in FLORIDA. I have experienced EXPLOSIVE growth after giving them a fresh start in new medium suited to MY climate. I would not pretend to tell you how to grow orchids in an aparment in NYC under lights no less. So for heaven sake stop talking down to people who do things different from you AND your list of "enlightened ones". The OP is in FLORIDA - I thought I might have something of value to say to her. I gave her my ***opinion*** what has worked for me. But your **opinion** comes off (many times not just this time) sounding like it was handed down from God. It wasn't __Howard__

NOW!!! As one would assume from reading here, that you own this board, you can kick my happy little butt right out of here!!!!

For the record, I'm not opposed to the repot on purchase idea. I'm saying the damage to the roots of that plant likely was not done in Lellie's posession. Lots of us *DO* buy orchids at Big Box Stores, for lack of a better source, but she lives in the land of milk and honey...or at least orchids and sugar... She could have much better plants from in-state sources that would have a better head start and when repotted upon purchase would have a full set of healthy roots going into Lellie's favourite media. I never said that repotting was in itself a bad idea.

-Cj

Heres a (hopefully) reasonable question for those you who feel like repotting upon purchase doesn't necessarily confer any sort of benefit - what about, as Alvin mentioned, nasties hiding in the medium? I don't have enough good growing space to quarantine new arrivals for months to see whether there are pests lurking around. At least repotting helps eliminate most of the critters. I also often give things a bath in dilute detergent (and then soak them in pure water of course) if they look a little sketchy after I've bought them (obviously I wouldn't be willingly choosing sketchy looking plants, but sometimes I just can't resist a color/flower shape...you know those moments).

Clara - I see where you're coming from, and I for one definitely do not advocate chopping off roots that are merely too long...but rotten roots? Yeah - I would chop them off. Sick stray pets undergo a strict regiment of decontamination, immunizations etc...and I do this for most of my new arrivals, for the sake of my existing residents! Personally, I would not be against amputation should said puppy have a gangrenous tail!! lol

Lellie is in Florida....It is going to be 64 tonight, according to weather.com - that dend will do fine being repotted ...some open medium and lots of sun will do the trick

Repot or not repot is certainly a decision to be considered on individual basis. When you know what has worked for you, I would say, repot- to switch to that media - as a result, watering is no guesswork. If the grower is new, then yeah, might not want to rush and see what works and what does not. In this case, learning to improve the culture - often more light, adjusting watering, etc - will suffice and help avoid repotting right away.

Well, this certainly is getting interesting. I just hope things don't turn too nasty and people start jumping ship. With that said, I think Brooke summed up my feeling quite well:

"I, for one, expect my plants to grow in my conditions and I don't need to learn how to grow a den in a wet sponge. I also have the ability to repot a plant and not have it die."

A couple of weeks ago, I received an order from one of the good vendors mentioned. I love their plants and have ordered from them many times. The three that were potted looked like they had just been placed in fresh medium. I've seen that trick before. Underneath that nice new bark was that god awful mud stuff I hate. It doesn't work for me and had I not repotted I wouldn't have known it was there.

I've repotted plants at all times of the year not because I just want to mess with the plants, but because I believe it's the right thing to do. I can't say I've ever had one go into decline because I did it. In fact, I'd say the opposite. I suppose if you simply rip the poor thing from the pot and jam it into something else you're going to have some problems. I don't do that. I'm careful.

Kevin

It's one thing to advise a grower to respond with a lighter hand, to watch the pbs, being extra careful with watering and keeping a plant in moderate light, as close to no stress as possible. Go easy. See how it goes. Observe.

But will a novice know what he or she is observing? Would a novice know how to respond with a lighter hand? Would a novice know a leaf issue if he/she saw one? Would a novice hear when a plant is speaking to them? A novice may not even realize a plant is under stress at all. A novice won't even understand watering and light.

The advice above regarding not repotting right away seems more suited for more experienced growers than someone just starting out. It sounds like some of you recognize the OP and are giving advice based on the knowledge that the OP is experienced and would know all these things. How would you advise a complete novice when they brought the same den home?

I read pcan-z9's comments and was felt disappointment. Howard is an experienced chidist and gives good advice. If one hangs around this site long enough, one wd pick up that he comes off sounding harsh, but is not really. We all know this site is for all, and I am sure he dz not think it belongs to him alone. Keep the nastiness at bay, folks, and exercise tolerance. We are all here to learn even if we disagree.

This thread is getting very interesting.....
lellie, your dend should be just fine, hard to kill these things in FL. Even though they come out of a microclimate, all my box stores dends have done well(yes, those were from the initial days of orchid addiction). Infact, some divisions from RF orchid did not do well- go figure. I had some attached to a palm tree at the other house and I pulled it out when we sold the house( was a little hesistant to do that), got them attached to another tree in this new house- that little thing did not skip a beat.
I would be a little careful of some plants like Psychopsis(psychosis) that has hated 'root disturbance'
Have fun- hard to kill a hybrid dend in FL!!!

"How would you advise a complete novice when they brought the same den home?"

That's kind of a tough question. Good reasons have been given not to repot, good reasons given to repot. At some point even a newbie is going to have to get his/her hands dirty and take a chance. Making mistakes can be a great learning experience. I also believe once you repot a plant for the first time you gain a whole new understanding of what orchids are all about. If your repotting is successful and the plant starts doing things it never did before, that can also be a huge confidence booster.

K

Clara, what do you mean by "There is 1 culture" [only?] for orchids? I do not understand what this statement. I guess my original post was unclear.

Not to ruffle feathers ... but after reading so much absolutist light/culture/etc pronouncements made on this Forum, I wonder many times if all those ex situ phalaenopsis, coelogynes etc that I saw in bloom close to the poorly lit, soggy Bornean rainforest floor are even orchids (or plants for that matter) by some folk's definition ;) Or whether the African Violets I've bloomed in unsupported N windows in Boston are even plants.

It is not encouraging to a beginner know that any plant can only be cultured in 1 way, and any other way is criminal or neglect. Disappointing. alvin

Important points and good discussions in between swings. Unfortunate there is a small band that make free thought uncomfie. Folks are treated like they act. Miss Olya and many others manage to keep it civil while making their points. He who has the loudest resistant voice should keep their rocks away from the g/h.

There isn't a body here that will stand for Howard bashing. Out of bounds.

The bashing answers the novice question. They might know. Might be ignorant. They might git curious. Now we're cookin'. Folks tend to take the path of least resistance. "whatever is easiest" & "whatever works", interchangeable. The words written here may spark an interest to find out P.D.Q. avoiding the "band-aid" approach to culture. Matter of time.
Mike

Lellie - I trust you have enough information here from both sides of the issue to make a decision on the matter? :) Hopefully you're not overly confused.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, lets get down to the more interesting discussion that is taking place.

Mike, you said in response to some repotting advice: Not a justification to repot upon purchase. No indeedy. Why is it there a hankerin' to reach for the bag o' media as a 1st line of defense? An epidemic is hitting the board, folks. and then presently you sayUnfortunate there is a small band that make free thought uncomfie

Sorry, but I felt a little 'uncomfie' to learn that my repotting practices are considered part of an epidemic of bad advice that is sweeping the board.

I hope you realize that these strongly worded posts are not an attack on 'free thought' but an attack on a particular method of information delivery, and some people are sensitive to that. Our recent discussion on the 'tenor' of this forum illustrates this idea pretty well, I should think! While I think pecan's post was a little strongly worded, I do find myself agreeing with certain aspects of it, and should I be ashamed of feeling that way, despite knowing full well that Howard is experienced and knowledgeable?

In my books, discussions are about examining each other's points and either supporting or refuting them. No one, for instance, addressed Alvin's post about bush snails, pecan's discovery of a rootless phal, or other notions of repotting because you want a media that you're used using etc. I've heard a lot of 'THIS is how it is' instead of 'Well, I don't think that's relevant because _______'

Which is more useful to a novice? The former or the latter?

I agree that personal bashing should not be approved and while frustrations may arise, being on an internet forum and typing responses should provide ample time to control emotions and express displeasure in a way such to minimize offense while maximizing effect. However, I've observed the formation of certain alliances in these last few months, which is interesting since this has never happened in the 2 years I was here. And honestly, I don't really approve of blindly jumping to the defense of an alliance member and rallying support as if this were some sort of market brawl before really understanding the apparently chronic issue that is being argued about in the first place.

my comments are not about re-potting but about buying from big box stores. I find myself buying from them from time to time for instant gratification of having some nice flowers around when i have nothing blooming at the time. if they keep growing well afterwards: fine; if not... Now, I bought one that looks like Lellie's a week ago: can anyone please tell me what the name of it is? thanks.
sue

I will come back to this post when I have gone rational again. Alvin and others, you bring up good points for further discussion.

Pecan you are well out of line with your comments about Howard. You are a disgrace and do not enhance this community by participtaing in that manner. You may not agree with him but never address him or anyone else as you did Howard. You will stand alone and be most unwelcome. That is not an opinion. I can safely say it is a concensus. What Howard has contributed to the GW orchid forum is beyond description. There are many like him, each as defendable. It is a line which is not crossed. Take it elsewhere.

I have not responded during the recent blood-sport activities, nor will I. The personal attacks and people behind them speak volumes to their skill level when left to stand, unanswered.
Clara

: )))))))))))))))

Gotta love ya, scott! Right on cue.

Sc

pcan, Clara, and all,

You are the sole living authority on your opinion. Other individuals here are the sole living authorities on theirs. None of it should be construed as Gospel. Opinions here agree and disagree regularly. We who are learning consider their pros and cons, along with whatever else we have read, and use them to fine tune our orchid care.

With time, we all gather experience in dealing with our orchids in our individual environments. Despite what some say, the last word on orchid culture has not been written and won't be, till the last orchid has perished (parish the thought).

It's all good. No one owns the forum, but we are indeed blessed to have so many with so much knowledge and experience willing to share what they know.

If you are put off by someone's personality, take a deep breath. If you disagree, you are free to say so--and frankly--within the bounds of decency--but don't make it Personal. Put away the root clippers and razor blades and address the Message itself.

As Howard put it...Don't kill the messenger.

Sc

Oh Clara!! Ouch!! I'm crushed!! Wow you really told me off huh???

Please, oh please, reread my post.......don't miss out on anything.........

I_meant_every_word!

Annoying, isn't it, when those you bite, bite back.......when condescending tone is aimed right back at you.........

You bark orders at me?? My question would not be who you are?? But, who it is you think_you_are. You take yourself way to seriously. Please.

Again, Howard comes off rude and condescending, but I guess as one poster implied we are all just supposed to magically know he's really not like that. No, not as long as you don't even hint that there is a different way of doing things. AND there is AND it is valid Miss Expert.

I'll go now Clara and leave you and the rest of "the enlightened ones" (and the EO wanta-be/followers) to discuss the really important stuff, and the "one culture" pronouncements with each other, as usual. You bore me frankly.

I saw a place where I thought I could help - I was wrong to try.
I saw hope after the "tenor of this forum" post ....perhaps a place where different ideas were welcome. The EO's are far to insecure to _allow_it.
My emotional wellbeing is not dependent on strokes or applause or head pats or praise from this forums groupies - I suggest you get out more, Clara.

In my not-so humble opinion, I do think that there are vital basics that must be met!
But...
There are many personalised methods that do work!
And work very well.
If I had followed the specific standards of traditional orchid culture, I'd have given up in despair a long time ago!

Firstly, although I understand the frustration involved, I agree that attacking Howard was truly unfortunate!
As we all know, he has given far more than is required of anyone!
I won't berate the poster about it, but...

While I'm at it, tone is everything when posting.
I'm guilty of an arrogant tone, at times, in statements that I make.
It's very easy to do, becomes habitual and difficult to see when one does it.

Yes!
I really do agree that we seem to be separating into camps of absolutes with figureheads and converts.
I remember with a tinge of bitterness(understatement of the year), the last forum I frequented that had a royal court, etc.
Certain members were always wrong(regardless) and others were always right!:~(
I would hate to see that plague grow here!
(Note: I didn't leave over photo size! That was just the last straw!)

I think that Howard has been put up on a pedestal by admirers with good intentions.

(The 'toon' is meant to be teasing!)
That's very hard to live up to and a very long way down.
It's also, rather unfair when one is expected to be perfect!
And...always have the right answers to make everyone happy!

I have always, and always will, state that I grow for my conditions and any advise give is with that disclaimer!
Always!
Period!

I admire anyone that is willing to spend the time involved in growing orchids.
(or tending to any living thing!)
We each have hurdles to overcome regardless of growing in Boise or Guam!

"...poorly lit, soggy Bornean rainforest floor...)

I was too busy fighting off hordes of leaches! ;~)
Ha!
The looks, my mom and I got, drippin' blood across the lobby of the Dusit Inn in Balikpapan! :~)
I didn't care!
I was getting a hot shower and roomservice...now!;~)

If I venture an opinion or suggestion, it's meant to give options and not cause dissent.
(Scott frantically irons his knickers!)

Most of you would cringe at seeing my conditions!
Although I appriciate wonderful comments(Thank you, Clara!), PETA would picket me after seeing how I treat my orchids! ;~)
My C. violacea's, Dracs, etc all live in the same room.
I have tried to convince them that there are micro-climates in there.

Since I have Dracs in spike 10ft away from bulbos in spike, maybe it's working.

The only Absolute that I know, is great with cranberry and a squeeze of lime! ;~)

With certain plants that we won't talk about, orchids are rather adaptable.
Most of them do want to grow and will do so in less than perfect conditions.
It doesn't mean that they should, just that many of them are fighters.

I don't buy orchids from grocery stores or the huge chain stores.
I hate the fact that stateside growers are being shut down because of huge cheap clones, of questionable quality, coming from parts of Asia.
But, that is my position.
Now, if I had many acclaimed growers close by...
Well, I'd be in big trouble!

Hmmm!
I guess that this was initially something about repotting!

Yes, no and maybe!
How's that?

Of course, I repot to suit my conditions and various convoluted/strained standards.
I'm just aware of when I should do it, considering that I will generally be going into some type of s/h.
(For me, now is a bad time with winter, etc here!)

I don't remember asking anyones opinion on my repotting practices.
I have no problem with suggesting alternative methods to someone struggling with "traditional' methods!
What is routine practice for one grower is a death sentence for another!
That is where experience with green things is invaluable.
Yes!
There are many differences, but if you are good at roses, bonsai or have great tomatoes...chances are you will take the time to learn how things will work for YOU!
Although there is a lot of science involved, I rarely pay attention to it!
Lumens...fertilizer ratios...relative humidity...!
What?
If I looked into all of that, I'd have learned how to use my camera by now! ;~)

I grow by feel and think that many others do as well.
I've grown many plants, in many different parts of the world.
Tropical, desert and temperate.
All require a different touch.
I think having some feel for things really helps.

Some parts are like baking, with carefully measured care along with specific factors.
But, great success can be had by a person with a green thumb! ;~)
{{gwi:201878}}

The only Absolute that I know, is great with cranberry and a squeeze of lime! ;~)
/rofl that's my kinda absolut[sic]!!

Figures!
I would have to spell it wrong!
I'd be thrown out of every club that I used to party at, for that one!
My White Party tickets revoked...dirty looks from restaurant staff...
Oh God, the pain!:~)

Although I always prefered Stoli or Grey Goose, Absolut was what was pushed.
Since I can't have grain vodkas anymore, I now drink Luksusowa!:~)
Yum!
I'm thinking of trying Chopin and seeing what it's like.

I'll just go lock myself in the town jail and wait for Andy!

Otis Campbell

I'd like to pin you down to some Absolut's, Scott, as that last post is a model of diplomacy and tact. In places its difficult to get exactly what you are saying. But all in all, I agree with your POV... I think. One thing is for sure, I never knowingly, or with knighthood aforethought set out to become a forum prophet. I do not knowingly disparage another posters truth. Since January 2007 and more acutely April 2007 my internet access has been limited to the public library. This means little or no editing of my posts. Nuance, diplomacy have had to take a back seat to content. Nevertheless, I do feel that I stay on this side of the line that separates boorish from benign. But I ask you (all) this: what is a point of view worth if its proponent has no sanction to defend it? The generation Y kids have an expression: "Don't hate (a playa)." In other words if you see someone (seemingly) enjoying the benefits of a "cult of personality" don't envy them because: 1. it ain't everything its cracked up to be. 2. s/he is not in anyway preventing you from doing likewise. 3. this too shall end.

At any given moment there are what 20, 25 thread titles visible? I pick four or five to read through and post on, based on title or subject. I do not read into every single post that comes along. I simply do not have the time. That leaves plenty for those who think I am trying to own the board. It simply isn't my fault if there isn't wide interest in putting together comprehensive, cogent responses to a thread on Cycnodes 'Wine Delight' or LED vs High Pressure Sodium light. I've read the usual suspects: Ortho, Sunset, Jaworski, Taylor's and I will happily point the curious to my sources. Very little of what I post is original. NONE of these sources ever told me to perform the operations I see being suggested or use the chemicals, etc. the focus is always on culture. Your fight isn't with me (if you have a fight) its with my sources.

I make no promises as to the results, but I am definitely going to take a hard look at what I am saying and how I am saying it. For the good of the board. It may be too late, though... I didn't arrive here yesterday and I didn't just recently start preaching high standards of culture. So why all the divisiveness now? Could it be that when the majority of posters were railing against shoddy marketplace goods as an excuse for their culture lapses and my opinions were buried in the mountain of pop culture posts it wasn't so threatening? Is is possible that because there is a growing faction of enlightened ones that those for whom an original and unique tweeak of culture that works for you is held to a peer review that it seems your practices are under attack?

Would it make you feel any better pcan to know that I have repotted orchids out of season? In fact, at some time or the other I have done nearly everything that I say not to do. And I think that is the crux of the present flame war. People in the main do not want to be told not to do something. Suggest what they might do so they are free to try it or not as they please but do not dictate a methodology. Again, I ask, what is a POV worth if someone is artificially limited to merely 'suggesting' it and someone else can post a POV directly counter to it without challenge? Why do traffic signals have red and amber signals? Why not only green? Because sometimes it isn't enough only to say go or give encouragement. Sometimes in order to be truly helpful one has to be able to say stop doing that, or don't do that or, careful if you do that. The reasonable reader of this (and any) forum will take that for what it is. The unreasonable will want to make a big deal out of it.

I meant what I said though, I am backing waay off. Lets see if it helps. I hope so. With any luck we can have the love back by Christmas. That would be the best present ever.

H

I just have a few thoughts (that may or may not be helpful) as someone without much of a stake in any of the arguments here. I get the impression when I read some of the responses to the OP that they were intended as advice, but also (I think somewhat intentionally) harbor "fightin' words" if you read between the lines. The fight here over orchid culture sure seems to me to be less about the content of the opposing arguments, and more about who is and who is not participating in the fight, and which side they are on. And a mutual agreement from both sides not to give each other a break once in a while.

If it were merely about the arguments themselves, the content of these arguments could easily be expressed in a way that does not trigger these spats. But to me it seems like some of you either just can't help yourselves and end up saying the wrong thing, or you're actually trying to foment discord. I think the folks on both sides of this fight know how to push each other's buttons. Some times I bet it is done unintentionally, other times on purpose - either explicitly so, or subtly. If it's done on purpose, even if it's done so subtly you can't even be sure if you're trying to do it on purpose, it's still done in bad faith. Perhaps I am cynical, but I am doubtful that people who repeatedly engage each other from opposing sides of the same argument ever unintentionally provoke one another's ire. If it *is* unintentional, people gotta be more careful with their words, and if it's not, well, that's just childish. I apologize if I am moralizing, but the causes of tension in this thread are very transparent, and it seems easy enough to see why some people were put off, or offended by what others (on both sides) have said. Just my 2 cents!

Mike

Gnashing of teeth here. If we all try to word our posts so no one objects, or if someone stops/reduces posting because someone doesn't like their style... It's happening.

Howard and others whose styles are being criticized - just because someone doesn't like how you're doing what you're doing doesn't mean you're wrong or need to stop. It means they don't like how you're doing what you're doing.

Some people here "speak" with authority; some suggest options. When I take a struggling plant to an experienced grower, in person, usually they're direct in their pronouncements: Do this, stop doing that, oh, my gosh - why did you do that? Their tone of voice isn't always warm, and sometimes they sound condescending.

Maybe some would confront the growers on their communication style. I doubt as many would confront them in person as confront people here. Maybe some would stop taking plants to them. I'll keep asking their advice.

This forum is similar. If someone's style ticks you off, skip their posts. If you don't like Heroes on TV, don't watch it. Going after someone's style here is akin to trying to get Heroes canceled because you don't like the writing.

I don't watch the show, but I don't want my next door neighbor to have the right to cancel it because they object to the dialog. (Intentional exaggeration for effect.)

As humans, we get more of what we focus on. Think people are generally well-intentioned? You'll see lots of well-intentioned folks out there. Think they can't be trusted much? You'll find confirmation right and left.

I ask that forum members who dislike someone's style take what they like and leave the rest to people who are willing to skip posts and separate substance from style.

Whitecat8

"...its difficult to get exactly what..."

Are you implying that I was tap dancing too fast?? :~)

I've haven't brought it up, but...
This term "enlightened ones", although initially with a tongue in cheek tone(I think?), makes me uncomfortable.
Regardless of intending to be complementory, it marginalizes people into camps.
Soon, the camps start to arm themselves and shout boasts across the way.
Seems to be human nature!

"...artificially limited to merely 'suggesting' it..."
From my point of view, that's where the "diplomacy and tact" come into play.
"Leading a horse...", "Catching flies...sugar..."
You get the point!

Also, many places with mature drivers don't even use trafic signals. I'm sure you know that.
I think that there could be a better phrasing involved with levels or stages of experience and methods.
For someone with little idea of how to grow any plant, following rigid steps(one, two, etc), with little change is likely of more help.
As one's talent (for lack of a better word) grows, more options and variations come into play.
Again, a new cook needs the helping hand of experience to guide things.
An experienced cook has many more options and technics at their disposal! :~)

Actually Mike, that was more like two bits! ;~)
Of course, given the chance to push a point of view ( good, bad or ...) most of us will do so.
Again, human nature!
We want a pat on the head and are disappointed when it's not forthcoming.
It sometimes comes down to...Don't ask, if you don't want to know the answer!
As for this highjackin' a thread to push (right or wrong) a debatable perspective, it isn't helpful either.
Sometimes people have to learn and can't be taught.
Forcing someone can make the best of us resist!

Jeeze!
And I though that I was thin-skinned! :~)

Scott

Howard,

Please reconsider. This problem does not lie with you or your input. We would be poorer without it. Even though I cannot grow under your conditions, I read and learn from your posts almost every day. Your straight forward style (verifiable information without fluff or the gluey gag of political correctness) is refreshing.

We need information, both general and specific, derived from authoritative sources, as well as from experience in broad to narrow environments. I have learned so much from posts by Richardol, Brooke, Arthurm, Calvin (Kevin?), Mehitabel, chip/alvin, Scott, and Orrin, just to name a very few. Losing any of them from this forum would truly diminish its value.

Since I am a recent arrival on the orchid forum, I don't know its history, but the presence of a small but persistent
faction of groupies--or clique--becomes obvious to any beginning lurker, here. Such a group is both off-putting and intimidating to newcomers and corrupts the spirit and usefulness of the forum.

Personality cults have existed since man first formed tribes. They can both create and destroy societies, and I know no remedy. In the short time I have been here I have "seen" several posters sniped to the extent that they have fallen way off in forum participation--Arthurm and Mehitabel, for example. What a loss that is to all who come to the Orchid Forum to learn about orchid culture! and what a shame that this manipulation is allowed to prosper.

Mine is a selfish post, aimed at all those who have allowed themselves to back away--for one reason or another--from providing interesting, informative, and valuable cultural input to this forum. Whether the Messenger is killed or commits suicide is immaterial; either way, the Message disappears.

You are not the "cause" of this cancer, Howard; and if I were Queen, I would not Allow you to "back off." Furthermore, I would bring back all the Arthurm's and Mehitabel's who, withering from insults, have essentially withdrawn. This community Needs what you all have generously offered for so long. Don't allow the pettiness of a very few pervert the purpose and destroy the value of this orchid community.

Sweetcicely

I believe I owe y'all a huge apology!

I never meant to start a war among friends...honestly.

It was an innocent enough post...wasn't looking for advice...it was just an observation...although I did ask why they use multiple mediums, for heaven's sake...LOL

I just this morning closed on my house up north after 3 LONNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGG years and have been busy on the phone all week with my honey, the title company, Realtors and of course, the new home owners, GOD BLESS'M!, so I haven't been back online.
Sorry...it was not my intention to start a thread...never to respond.

My honey is on his way home as I type with my other green obsessioncolor=green> ...hehehe!

{{gwi:201879}}

Firstly, I want to say that the plant was great looking the first week until the remaining buds blasted.
I can't take any of the credit for the decline of this plant, because apparently it was in bad shape when I brought it home.
Who could tell it was in peril unless one had x-ray vision and could view the roots and medium?

Furthermore...I neglected to post that the reasoning behind my re-potting and not just waiting it out, which I know works for me, was the condition of the growth.
I wish I had taken a shot of it to show you.
The base of the entire plant, at 'soil level' had turned to mush overnight...that was why I felt it needed drastic action.

I misted it and gave it very little water while under my care, so the mushy base didn't make sense...I felt it had to be that the store had over-watered it and the medium was probably retaining too much water.

(This is the time of year where I withhold water from all my dens, BTW)

It was the sudden failing of the plant that lead me to pull it just to see what the heck it was growing in.

Now, I could be wrong, but hey!...better I learn from a grocery store chid than on a $200+ imported beauty, I say!
I am still learning, after-all. :)

Yes...I live in Florida...I grow my orchids outside and although I read & digest all of what everyone here writes I tend to 'listen' more to those who cultivate in like climates such as Olya, Sambac and a few others do...Not because I don't value others' opinions, but because well...its different in Flarda.

I know nothing about FC's or light meters and which window's best...probably never will. Doesn't mean I can't grow orchids.
It may take me longer to get the hang of it simply because its new to me...but when one of'm blooms big time or shoots up new growth at an alarming rate all the while smilin' at me...I figger I AM learning.

I thank each and every one of you for all your help, even if I do hafta kinda sift through what might or might not work for me.
Just because what 'A' or 'B' might post doesn't necessarily apply to me and my region, doesn't mean I learn nothing from the advice.

Please stop attacking each other. Y'all have so much combined knowledge to share...it'd be a shame if this board lost any one of you!

OK!
On a lighter note...
Anyone remember my V. Mote from last spring?
She has two spikes this season so I reckon she loves me...or Florida...hehehe!

This was last year...
{{gwi:201880}}

Film @ eleven...

Oh...and SCOTT...KETTLE ONE, my dear...KETTLE ONE...LOL

That particular orchid was a Den Burana Green Star.

"...KETTLE ONE, my dear..."

Sniffle...
I can't anymore!
It's distilled from wheat
Severe glutin allergies, these days!:~(

I can't have grain-distilled vodka, period.
I had to search out a good potato vodka and have been rather pleased with Luksusowa.
I'm very interested in trying Chopin!:~)

Jeeze!
I keep misspelling gluten!

hello lellie, thanks for giving me the name of the orchid.
sue

Nice V. hybrid. Have a pic of it now? Grow 'em. Love 'em. Looks like a fast grower in your parts.
Mike

Scott, think about it- glutin sounds nicer than gluten!

True!
Could be a mental block.
I've got lots of 'em! ;~)

Ketel-One... mmmm! Think global, drink local -- Teton Glacier makes a good potato vodka, and Blue Ice, too.