Amen. One new thing I've noticed (it may not be *that* new, but it is, relative to my participation here). It's the designation OP. It's used a lot now, and seems to me that it's used a lot because people stop talking TO the original poster and start talking to each other, often defensively. It might help stay on track if we stay focussed on answering the question. Once done, let it go. If someone contradicts you (or as with myself, you're completely ignored), shrug and let it go. Just a thought. Oh, and I've been guilty of tart retorts myself. I pledge to take my chagrin elsewhere.

John :>)

You know, I'm just going to ignore all of it. I'll read it, maybe give an observation, but it sure isn't going to affect me or my participation in this place. As an oldtimer (member since 2003), I think I've seen it all. We will survive if we want to.

As already stated, this ain't nothin' compared to what happens on other places. I've even been banned permanently like for-the-rest-of-my-natural-life-type-banned from one place. I can't even view the site without getting a message YOU ARE BANNED!!

No big deal. I'm not pitching the orchids out the window anytime soon.

K

Whitecat,

Life is so short, let's enjoy the beauty of orchids.

I know some tenured experts love political fights. I have seen these bloody wars in universities everywhere.

But hey, politics are not orchids. Since the Roman empire, there have been political fights; and these are not going away any time soon. So, why do we not just survive in gray shades. lol.

C

My comment went onto the "another reason to re pot upon purchase!" thread (Link below), because that is where Howard_a's regrettable resolution is posted. It was hard to decide where to put it, since his post is central to the issues addressed and superficially "central" to the problem.

Well, heck. The system rejects the URL, so just go to the
"another reason to re pot upon purchase!" thread if you care to read it. Sorry.

Sweetcicely

Kevin- I'm curious: When you're banned from a website, is it IP based? Ie - if you were to log on from a library computer, would you still be banned?

WC, John and Kevin - For the most part, I completely agree with you. We are all so passionate about this topic that sometimes things flare up, and when you have flare ups, people pick sides and as Scott mentioned, it would really be unfortunate if some sort of 'royal court' phenomenon were to arise here as a result of these 'wars.'

That said, I think as a community of people coexisting it's inevitable that things like this arise. Inevitable! The fact that we see it happening everywhere in all sorts of communities shows that. Even if most people ignore the situation, a few people who don't will result in a war that indirectly effects everyone. I also try to ignore things going on, but sometimes I get mad.

My opinion is that it is in fact quite helpful and perfectly normal to discuss issues when they arise in a civil manner. I don't think ignoring it or laughing it off is a great solution because then things boil up and someone explodes. That's why I really did think the 'tenor' discussion was good because some of these things came up into the open non-threateningly.

If someone says something that annoys me sufficiently, I should think that I would have the license to express that. I spend enough time here (at the expense of my productivity!!!! :S) that interactions between myself and people here is significant in my life.

Yes, I actually care about how people treat me on an internet forum. Someone out there is bound to call that 'sad and pathetic' but hey, I see it different! I made a bunch of great friends online whom I care enough about to write passionately to - that doesn't seem sad to me! :) I am all for being civil, but not silent. Saying something like "That makes me uncomfortable" rather than exploding is acceptable to me, and perhaps more desirable than just ignoring it.

Some of us are 'ok' with just letting things go, and enjoying our orchids. Some of us get really involved in this forum. Some of us are more sensitive to issues, some of us are less sensitive.

Of course we would all like to be loving and share our experiences in a positive manner! Personally I come here to look at pretty pictures! Nonetheless, I really think communication is critical - does that make sense?

I think the ultimate bottom line is, treat people here as how you would in real life. :) Most of us (I hope) are respectful polite people. As long as we remember that, I think everything will be fine!

Kevin- I'm curious: When you're banned from a website, is it IP based
-- My guess is that your username/password combo is banned. You cannot login anymore, no matter what computer/IP address.

Olya

I'm not sure what the ban is all about. I've never tried from another computer. Sometimes when I Google I'll find something and click on it not knowing that it originated at the forum I was banned from. I get the BANNED message at that point. I've never even tried logging into the forum for a few years now.

K

Kevin Well put again.Thank you

Your Banned issue Its most likely an IP deny. The user name and password would be blocked as well. You can call your isp and ask to have your ip address changed so you at least look. For a fee you can also have a private IP. The cost can be equal to a few orchid purchases a month though :-( Can you tell them it was Klevin that made the offensive post? ~:->

"Carla"

PS Carla wants to know what the offense was that got you banned? I told her ladies don't ask those questions...help!!!.... she is forcing me to type...
"Probably Kevin's hatred of phals and squirrels. He can take his....."

"No Carla! Bad Girl! Stop it!! Get away from the computer!!! Get off my lap HELP!!"............................!!

Clara or is it Carla?

Kevin: Per Google links to said forum that you were "banned" from - next time, try the "Cached" link in the final line of a returned item on Google, right next to "Similar Pages". It could be an IP deny issue and/or username/passwd block as others have noted. I think it's Draconian stupid to ban someone from a forum. alvin

Thanks guys. I really have no interest in even looking at that place again. It is nothing but a bad and distant memory. I can't say why I was banned, but it wasn't orchid related. I did a very naughty thing and am proud as punch I did it. Let's just say the owner of that place stopped taking his meds or something and I pushed a few very sensitive buttons. I can do the revenge thing if need be.

Klevin (one again, the evil twin - hehehehe....)

I don't know what is going on or what caused it, but it saddens me. 'The Purpose of this Forum' is to discuss growing orchids and sharing information. The Purpose is to help new growers and offer tips and information to more seasoned growers. That is the Purpose as I see it.

The regular posters are really interesting, creative people who share a love of growing a complicated plant. Some can grow them as I do, very casually with not a great interest in finding out everything there is to know. I have always grown them (as is my style) with a relaxed attitude and not being shattered if some just don't like living with me.

I have learned so much from the people on this forum, especially Howard because 'light' was never stressed in the books or literature I could find. Being a dirt grower for most of my life, it all came together when I added more light to my indoor growing. But I never did what Howard stated was necessary, I never went as far as Clara, but I did increase the amount of light shining on my plants.

Much of my growing is based on my years of experience growing dirt plants. As Scott said, if you can grow a good tomato, put the same knowledge into growing orchids. You learn a lot by just growing anything for years.

None of us know each other at all. We only think we know each other through our postings. There are personalities which tick us off, but we need to see through that to get to the knowledge they offer. I personally find some posters very funny, some irritating, some boring, some very interesting. I've been around this forum for a long time and have seen people come and go. I also was banned for years, but learned so much by lurking.

Having met Clara and Howard made them so human to me. Their enthusiasm and knowledge was intoxicating. They were real people who shared the same passion (actually much more passion) than I did. Having Howard in my growing areas and hearing his comments and suggestions was beyond my imagination. He is a gentle, sweet, incredibly smart man who plays a mean piano. Clara is full of energy, more than you could imagine. She is a whirlwind who can 'charge' the atmosphere of any room. I see why her plants grow so well, she emits more energy than any light-bulb known to man. She is excited by these plants and loves them more than I ever could.

Howard changed this forum years ago with his emphasis on light. This IS the most important point to get across to new growers. I know how it changed my growing experience and how it made growing orchids easier and successful. I didn't need to know the details, I needed to know that growing orchids indoors in Z5 required lights. I grew orchids for years and flowered them, including Dens and Catts with just window light. But throw in a few CFL's and you get flowers you couldn't get with just a window. Lights are the easy way to get the flowers we all strive for. Its the easy way to get the growth and health we all want. Its simple and Howard brought that to the attention of this forum years ago. Now no serious grower would consider growing orchids indoors in winter, without them.
There are some growers who just don't have the years of growing experience to test out their theories. They believe they are correct in their advice, but anyone who has grown orchids for many years, knows their theory will eventually fail, at least with novices. Should new growers be allowed to follow information which will cause them problems in the long run? I don't know, but I do know that it is hard to read advice, which sounds good on paper, but just doesn't work and not say so. Many times I notice that forum members do not take the growing zones into consideration. Also, greenhouse vs window. Arthur always points that out in his responses, I think other posters should try the same. Indoor growing in the dark, frigid North does not relate to tropical growing.

An example, which goes back a few years is 'sphag and bag.' In my opinion, it doesn't work. It may work once in a while, but most often it leads to death of the plant. The best thing that has happened at this forum is the advice to toss the plant when it reaches a state of 'little hope.' An experienced grower might be successful using a similar technique but they know what they are looking for and have a 'feel' for what they are doing. They also know that if it works it will be a long time before this plant is healthy and flowering.

For new growers, the basics should be stressed. The basics are the same no matter what is grown. Plants need light, water and air. Those are set in stone. How you adjust those factors to fit the particular plant is where the experienced grower steps in and has the most of offer. Any ordinary houseplant will rot if overwatered and underlit. I believe the basics must be taught and some responsibility by the novice to research and learn these things should be encouraged by the more experienced growers. I think many of us forget what it was like to be a new grower, especially of orchids. Old habits die hard - I started out growing Dens in potting soil. They actually lived and I did get flowers on one, but I knew something was wrong. I found this forum and got my answers.

I wish we could all meet each other as I did with Howard and Clara. A few years ago, after I was allowed to post here again, I remember some heated arguments with Howard about light. But what sticks in my mind the most, is that he was right. It worked and Clara has proven to me that it can be done in this cold, dim winter. I can flower my beloved Dens under lights which in my mind is a feat in itself. It works with just a few 24W CFl's. If I had a dedicated growing area, I would have a bunch of Big Bertha's.

The advice given to novices should encourage good growing culture which will give them the best chance for success. Repotting a den in flower because it is in a tiny pot is not good advice to a novice. It should be explained that a den likes a tiny pot and that repotting now will most likely result in a loss of flowers and possibly set the plant back for a year or more. Sure it can be done, but for what reason? Should repotting a plant be at the top of the list of good culture?

It is wonderful that we have so many experts on the forum and that they continue to share their experience. I am not an expert and never will be. But I know plants and I also know when poor advice is given. I don't think it requires experts to speak to new growers. They need to hear how they can get their plants to survive the first year and flower again. That is what ultimately hooks someone into staying with orchids. They need success.

Calvin, you are so right. There is nothing wrong with disagreements and one should not feel they have to laugh it off. Flare ups are normal but no one should accept name-calling. How utterly childish.

This has happened in the past and it always blows over. Howard, I seem to remember you pulling back once before. Don't even bother. Why should you? For someone who is not even part of this forum?

I would like to know which orchids grow in swamps and bloom in Borneo with only 2 hours of sunlight a WEEK!

Everyone is getting too sensitive...lets just all relax and get back to our plants. I think if we could all meet each other over a glass of wine and a table full of plants, this would never happen. We'd all enjoy each other and find we are more alike than we believe. This forum is too important to let such nonsense get in the way.

Jane

Jane:"I would like to know which orchids grow in swamps and bloom in Borneo with only 2 hours of sunlight a WEEK!" I didn't say this exactly in my message :) Just 1 example Coelogynes, my favorites. The ones I have seen close to forest floor that sees near zero direct sunlight are massangeana, pandurata, asperata, rochussenii. I grew a C. asperata in soil/leaf mold beneath a rambutan tree in my garden back in Borneo (why? because I found it growing on the forest floor young, unbloomed - so thought to experiment) - it flowered after 2-3 years. The rest flowered like clockwork stuck to "armpit" of trees in my garden, all except C. pandurata which did not flower frequently. I never figured out the environmental factors that induced flowering for the vast majority of my wild orchids. Essentially uniform weather conditions year round. Our "dry" monsoon is a joke (no rain for 3-4 days straight), otherwise convectional downpours every evening rest of the year. Back then, the orchid I consistently killed were phalaenopsis. 50% survival rate in my hands - rot :) alvin

I agree with Whitecat8. This forum on occasion becomes sidetracked. Like this particular posting. Why are we arguing about this? We aren't even talking abut orchids. An online forum is beneficial for many people. It's easy and doesn't require much effort. But some newbies do ask the dumbest questions. This isn't a new phenomenon. Look at the old mail bag in the old AOS Bulletins. Someone wants to know what's chewing his orchids but cannot provide to the editor an accurate description of the bug or at least send a good picture. The poor editor just simply says "I cannot at this time proved an accurate diagnosis of your problem with the materials you provided." Poor Doctor Sheehan. Same thing goes on here. I've been growing cattleya orchids for 30 years. I have three large greenhouses filled with some of he greatest cattleyas through history. Yet, I consider myself a mere student of orchid growing. There's no one way to grow an orchid well. What works for some may not work for others. I do object to some blow hard experts (some self-absorbed know it all with perhaps 9 years of growing experience) coming off in a condescending and dogmatic fashion. I tell "newbies" to do some research first. Some of them get miffed by that. They want instant easy answers. When I started growing orchids when I was 9 years old, I got as many orchid books I could get my greedy little hands on. I was constantly in the library. Now we have the computer. Go to the AOS website. Read the FAQs on each genus or species. Do a little leg work before asking a question. Furthermore, talk to the real experts. Write, Email, telephone them, or try to meet them in person: I have been so fortunate to have talked and discussed orchid with the great Ernest Hetherington, Leo Holguin, Frank Fordyce, Paul Gripp, Murray Spencer, Don Herman, Ned Nash, Ben Kodama, Gene Crocker, Roy Fukumura, Wally Nakamoto, Miya Miyamoto, and the list goes on and on.
Many of these men are no longer around. But you can talk to accredited AOS orchid judges. These are the real experts. And they all say that they too are students of orchid culture and breeding. There will always be much more to learn. Join the AOS. Read their beautiful magazine. Attend orchid events and shows. Talk to the vendors. Join an AOS orchid club in your area. There are no quick fix answers. Growing orchids well take time and a concerted effort to provide the optimum growing conditions for each genera humanly possible. With what you have. Don't have enough light. Go out and purchase artificial lights. Dedicated people will go to great lengths to provide the best growing conditions for what they are given. Women and men transforming their basement into a working greenhouse. A man living in a small Manhatten apartment trasforms his living space into another working greenhouse.
But all these people did their research. I think this forum will do well wiith some patience, some level headed advice (and that's all its meant for, not the gospel according to Ernie23. Growing orchids is meant to be fun. Let's keep it that way.

Toyo2960 Why post your message twice on 2 threads? Ya think orchid growing is like frequent flyer miles? How ya keepin' track of who has how many? Experience determined by number of miles- years and places ya have been? T'aint. Heck I got a degree in less than 9 years. Can write a few books in 9 years. That makes me an expert by board system. Bunk.

Proof is in the growin' and rebloomin'. Put my money on folks that can grow - rebloom a variety than a body that's set food in high orchid country. Every Vietnam Korea vet would be an expert if that was truth.

Point's been made. Beaut of a re: Miss Jane. Thread should have ended there.
Amusing how 3 threads are bein' massaged like a "conversations" thread. One thread's bein' outright bumped. It ain't a way of truce.
Sleepin' dogs.
Mike

Truce's seldom work when one of the parties fires a machine gun into the crowd, ya know.

Brooke

Jane - What a lovely, wise response. Thank you.

I'm dying to know why you got banned! Kevin I can see VBEG, but not you.

Calvin - In my opinion, one of the "Tenor" posters was mean-spirited and went after someone personally. Nothing like the Braem wars on another board, but in 2.5 years here, it was a first for me.

snasxs, you said, "Life is so short, let's enjoy the beauty of orchids," and toyo, you noted this post isn't about orchids. Yes. This forum is the most valuable orchid resource for me. This post is an attempt to keep the forum on track for the sake of my orchids. A bit convoluted and totally selfish.

Alvin, have you written anything about your years in Borneo that's accessible to us? I'd love to read it. Or do you have pix posted somewhere?

Thanks for your comments, everyone. It's comforting to hear this has happened before, and the forum has kept to its purpose.

Whitecat8

whitecat,

Sorry for being dumb, but who is the mean-spirited "Tenor" poster? Who did this poster go after? Did they have an affair afterwards? I am so lost. lol.

C