Yeah, it just reinforces to me why I never saw the need to become a member there. It is not my intention to be pedantic, I just happen to like to have a forum that is specifically for native plants ... that is the plants that are indigenous to North America. Certainly creating a separate forum (on that site) for "wildflowers" - a forum that was for discussing flowers that just pop up wherever - might help folks that don't care to discriminate about place of origin.

Here in parts of the Southeast that are in the midst of a drought, we have seen a LOT of recent interest in new folks learning about native plants.

I agree, ahughes, I am glad to have THIS place! I have never found another forum as good for this topic.

At least here at GW there is a sentence or two describing what consitutes each forum. If people want to include non-natives, they can visit woodland, shade, and even meadow and prairies forums as these include both natives and aliens.Our area has just established a "committee" to encourage the use of natives and supposedly from here on out they will not plant anything on the NC invasive list in public parks and areas. AND, they say they will begin work on eliminating extremely invasive plants from those areas. Of course, they are asking for volunteers because they have so much work ahead of them. The city arboretum is covered with English ivy, not to mention the privet, nandinas, etc. Of course, the county extension agent recently wrote an article for the area newspaper, describing deer-proof plants, and elaeagnus was included. Yuck.

I think it's kind of ridiculous to lump native plants and naturalized plants together on a forum that was intended to discuss indigenous plants. Many non-natives have naturalized and may appear to be native, but they've naturalized becasue they're invasive and crowding out native plants. Over at Dave's, how do they avoid debates between native plant enthusiasts and people who think Queen Anne's lace is a pretty wildflower?

I'm glad this forum is "Native Plants" period. I can see making reference to non-native or invasive plants here, but only in the context of how they are affecting the habitat of native plants.

It would be interesting to have an "Invasive Plants" forum, too, where people could discuss invasive plants, IDs, their management, etc. For me, it was the process of learning about and battling invasive plants that put my interest in natives plants into sharp focus!!

I am not a purist and grow many well-behaved non-native plants, particularly non-native annuals for their beauty and wildlife value. But when I started to identify what was growing in my yard and neighborhood I was distressed to realize that at least 8 of the worst woody invasives in the northeast US were growing here.

In my yard, Acer platanoides (Norway maple), Celastrus orbiculatus (Oriental bittersweet), and Frangula alnus (Glossy Buckthorn) were particularly bad. I've spent many hours eradicating these and others, and $2000 in tree work removing Norway maples so far. Good riddance, and planning to plant lots of natives in their place. :)

People are not allowed to debate at Rave's Darden. It's not nice. Someone's belief system or feelings might get hurt, after all, or, Jah forbid...start to think about and be responsible for what they're planting, and think about how what they plant might affect what goes on outside their property lines.

We can't be having people thinking about all that complicated stuff, now can we?

I like to browse through Dave's Plant Files where there are some nice photos and interesting comments on the plants. The Plant Files database doesn't list the native range of the plants though, so it lacks some important information for me to know about a plant. Maybe the members aren't interested in knowing that??

Sometimes I have to dig a little to find out what the native range of a plant is, or figure out what species make up a hybrid. Even the USDA database just says N for Native or I for Introduced.

Even the USDA database just says N for Native or I for Introduced.

Look at the distribution maps to see the ranges. For natives, my understanding is that those are the indigenous locations. Some states are better than others in populating that map, of course.

Someone on another thread just alerted me to a hotlink toggle underneath the left side of the distribution map - it says "view native status". I guess that will truly show you the indigenous areas.

As before, you can try then clicking on the state itself to see a county by county distribution.

Thanks esh_ga - I love the USDA database, and it is excellent for showing the origin of native plants. But do you know if the website indicates where a plant that is not native is introduced from? Usually have to poke around the web to find the origin.

Guess you could say I am a native plant enthusiast (so far there are winter-sown containers for 31 species of native plants out there in the snow!). But even for the non-natives, it's interesting to know what country they are from.

It's a lack of respect shown those of us who know the difference between a wildflower and a native plant. For me, who chooses to use native plants, it doesn't have anything to do with politics, but according to them it does.

It's also mentioned that the forum was wildflowers before it became indigenous. Also mentioned was that Indigenous didn't come up in searches on google. Google does however, bring up GardenWeb. I guess competition isn't good.

terry, I think you've hit on the essence of it ... for the people to whom it matters, the difference between native and naturalized should not be trivialized.

terrene, I don't think the USDA site provides information on where something originated. I usually just google the scientific name of the plant plus the word "native" and you can usually find out. Good luck with your winter sowing!

Dear ahughes,

Yes - agree with you about DG. Some narrow mindedness prevails but there were good folks there too.

I was a former member but no more. Almost everything, including the much beloved cottage forum is now pay! That's what got my goat.

They don't get it, they never will get it, they aren't interested in getting it. So it will remain trivialized. I won't be surprised if the Invasive forum goes away.

That's it exactly, Terryr. They absolutely do NOT want to get it. I call it the flat earth society.

To me, it's a fairly useless place.

Yes, there are some good people over there. Emphasis on some.

Hi everyone. Im new here, so forgive me if IÂm asking a dumb question. But over in the native seeds exchange forum, IÂve spotted one person asking for non-native seeds, and another person is offering to supply them. Was I out of line to point out that the plant in question isnÂt native? Is there a moderator around to delete or move that sort of request, and if so, how would I notify them?

Thanks. . .

I do that occasionally too. Some people just don't know (and sometimes they are talking about 'naturalized' plants which some people think can be called native after a while). So I try to treat it as a point of education at first.

We don't really have active moderation on the GW forums unless the item is truly offensive.

Welcome, stoloniferous ... you sound like you'll make a fine addition to our 'colony'! :)

Thank you esh, thats some good advice, and Im really loving this place!

If anyone wants to trade seeds...there's still time to wintersow. Check my list.

Can someone tell me how to find the USDA plant distribution map? I'm on the "plants.usda.gov" page, but can't find a link to the map itself even on the site map.

You have to look up a plant first and then the map is further down on the page. You should see a map of the US with states colored if the plant is found there. If the state has provided county by county distribution, you should be able to click on the state. Not all states provide it for each plant.

Ah! Thanks, Esh Ga! I was looking for the wrong thing--hoping they'd have a general distro of plants for a particular county rather than by individual plant. Now that I think about it, it'd be a darned crowded map. D'oh! Thanks again.

Regarding sites for information on native plants - while the USDA site is very handy, particularly for determining whether something lives in your county, my launchpad is the www.wildflower.org site. Their plant profiles are great, with pictures, descriptions of native habitats (very important, as planting something native to your area but in the wrong habitat may not work, & doesn't re-create an environment that occurs naturally), & propagation details.

For exotics, my default option is actually Wikipedia. They'll usually at least give where the plant originated and a basic description, although their coverage of species is far from complete.

Something I never understood about the Lady Bird site, is where do I find what plants are native to IL? I always seem to find plants native to TX. Am I looking wrong?

The Combination Search feature works great for me:

http://www.wildflower.org/plants/index.php

I just select my state (New York) from the drop-down menu and add other features I'm interested in. They also have "recommended species" lists for each state, but that's less helpful, both because it tends to be a short list, and because habitats vary so widely within a state.

Oh for pete's sake!! Thank you for pointing that out. I honestly never saw that drop down for states. Man do I feel stupid ☺

Ooh! Nice site, Amelanchier!

I am so glad I am not a member there, anymore.

Too much censorship, in my opinion.

Though I have to give Dave credit for refunding my membership fee. He wasn't obligated to, but when I politely asked and explained that I no longer wanted to be member. He refunded my fee, no questions asked.

joe! I haven't seen you around in a long time. Don't sell yourself short, you weren't merely a member, you were a subscriber. Big difference.

BTW, I sent you an e-mail at the e-mail address I had before. Be sure to check for it.

Hi Terry! I've been around, just lurking mainly. I didn't see your email, I'll have to go check my inbox more carefully.

I do wish that this forum was more active. Its pretty slow.

I bought a native butterfly garden seed mix from Prairie Nursery to plant in my side yard. And just my luck, the darn mice chewed a whole in the box and ate most of the seed, before I had a chance to plant it. And you know, that quality native seed isn't cheap. I think I paid around $70 for that seed. I should reorder...now that spring is looming.

Hey joe, just sent the e-mail yesterday. Let me know if you get it or not. I can always resend it.

I wish most the forums that used to be hopping would resume to that. It's slow here, but slow at the other site too.

Did you ever make it to Possibility Place last year? I've already pre-ordered from them for this spring. I had an e-mail from Prairie Nursery that there's still time to direct sow a lot of the native seed outdoors yet. Sorry about the mice, but yes! Reorder! If you're doing that same thing you did last year, which I can't remember the name of, let me know. We can hook up again.

I did get to PP last year. I ordered quite a bit. I got several New Jersey tea shrubs and a witch hazel... along with a couple flats of perennials.

Sounds like you did good!

Ahughes (or anybody else), if you're interested in a trade or SASBE, check out my exchange list...

Esh-ga, thanks for the good wishes on the winter-sowing. So far done 65 containers, including 38 native species and several cultivars of native species. Its been fun, and I can't wait to see how well things germinate and grow! Winter-sowing affords the opportunity to grow lots of natives that would be difficult or impossible to get at nurseries, or exorbitantly expensive to buy as plants.

I bought lots of native seeds (and a few non-native) this winter and offered extras on the Seed Exchange forum. There was a lot of interest in native seeds, which was nice. But I was dismayed to see people trading invasive species like Euonymous alatus (burning bush) or Ailanthus altissima (tree of heaven). One poster even explained on her exchange page how she grows Oriental bittersweet and keeps it contained on a trellis so it's okay! Yeah...only if she strips off every berry...if she saw how it's strangling native trees around here, she might change her mind!

Terry, I didn't get your email.

My address is culversroot@yahoo.com

O.k. joe, I resent it (10:44pm Mon. night) and just to be sure, I looked at the address I had in my book for you. It's the same one as above. So I don't know what happened, but hopefully you get this one...let me know if you don't....

There's a thread there now about propagating dame's rocket. The admins, who in the past said they would "be happy to move... to the correct forum" any threads promoting exotics or invasives, now don't see any problem with a thread about propagating invasive plants in the "native plants and wild plants" forum.

They really just don't get it.