Out-water pumps can handle larger debris. I've found the out-water are used for the larger ponds, 1200+ gallons. I have lots of friends with ponds and we all use the in-water pumps. I hate cleaning the filters every week in the submersibles. Here's a couple of suggestions... I take one of those water plant planters, the small ones, and flip it over in the water to sit my pump on. This does 2 things, it keeps the pump away from all the silt on the bottom of the pond; AND if something goes awry the pump won't totally drain your pond. I also keep mud on the bottom for my frogs to live out the winters and if my fish decide to have little ones the pump won't suck up the eggs as quickly. Also, cut large enough holes in the basket for the fish to swim thru. I have big birds around who like to watch the fishies in my pond and this gives them a place to hide until the plants give them enough cover. You can also buy pumps that are both and see which way you prefer. Good luck.

Thank you Violetmay...That's what I wanted to know and thanks for the suggestions! Debbie

sockmonkeyz6:

Submersible pumps are not as efficient, but are easier to use: simple install - drop it in and run the tubing to your filter, falls, etc. Out of pond will require prefiltering or it too can clog, this filtering typically consisting of settling chamber > strainer before the pump. Out of pond pumps usually can be optioned with a strainer that fits in the pump suction port.

But the entire arrangement is different if you are simply setting the submersible pump in the pond w/o a skimmer. Out of pond pumps NORMALLY rely on a skimmer and (usually) a bottom drain to draw water out. The "typical" flow for Out of pond arrangment:
Skimmer/Bottom Drain > setting chamber > strainer/mechanical filter > pump > more filters including finer mechanical & bio filters. You can do an out of pond w/o skimmer & BD, but just need a large screened inlet over the suction line to keep big chunk & fish friends out. PLUS maybe a way to prime it (getting deeper and deeper i know).

There are of course many variation to this flow and even more opinions. But for your situation, sounds like the elevation trick (inverted basket) is a good quick fix.

Most submersible pumps do block up and require frequent maintenance. But there are some submersible pumps, such as Laguna Maxflo or Oase Aquamax that have solids handling capability and are more energy efficient than their inline cousins.

At a 2ft head my Oase Aquamax pumps approx 2000GPH drawing 110watts. I've used it 24/7 for over 3 years and it has never blocked up or reduced in flow rate. The newer models are even more efficient. They are expensive but pay for themselves in energy savings within a few years.

That's what I like, more views! Who needs books or "so called experts" at gardening shops when I've got the real experts with real experience right here. Thanks so much everybody. Debbie

just comparing watts per hour, a good external is the way to go. Also, it's not just about staying clog free, it's also about debris removal. A bottom drain flowing into a settling chamber will remove more debris from the pond then a submersible pump. The reason is the water flows into a separate chamber where it can gently settle out before getting sent into the pump. When you puree fish waste in the pump it is almost impossible to remove it from the water and much of it will get sent through the filters and back into the pond. By removing the solid waste before the pump you have far superior mechanical filtration then a sub pump.

you can use a submersible pump it you want, just place it at the top of your settling chamber rather then at the bottom of the pond.

Surfhead,Thank you too, I wish I would have found you all before I built my ponds I have no bottom drain or settling chamber. *sigh* would've made life much easier at my supposed to be calm, peaceful, place. I know I'm not done yet, when I start on my "ultimate pond", it will have those. You make sense where I have none, as I'm often told. LOL.

but sock..z6, now when you get the urge to tinker, you have some ideas and folks here are FREE with advice! Especially when you start wishing your pond was bigger (lol).

you can retrofit a bottom drain and SC pretty easily.

I agree with surfhead - submersibles can "puree" the fish waste so pumping from the top of the settlement chamber is a good idea. If your filter is entirley gravity fed then I'd put it in the last filter chamber. This ensures only the cleanest water is being pumped and minimises head pressure. But make sure gravity feeds the water faster than the pump turns it over so the pump doesn't run dry.

Surfhead, can you tell me what pump make/models are the most energy efficient. The best I can find is a submersible but happy to be proven wrong in the interest of saving energy.

Well,Surfhead and Ozziekoi, I have been busy; now I have a 55 gallon drum settling chamber and I'll be making sure my pump doesn't run dry. Thank you I'm really happy with the knowledge I'm soaking up from you guys. I love my ponds so much and I want my fishies to have the best environment I can give them. Powder, FG and Lemonhead my Koi Thank you too.