I completely concur with your thoughts on color Melissa. I agree that white is more complex than most people think. I prefer the creamy whites myself. I have noticed gardens that have used white and thought to myself to add them in, only to find it didn't have the effect I wanted because I used the stark whites and it was the more buff whites that had been appealing to me. I also think you have a valid point in using very white roses as independent specimens. There they shine without clashing. White is not always a neutral as you say.

Bravo Melissa!!! I would love for you to write a book on garden color because of your great instincts for color in the garden.

Chance

I love your posts, Melissa.

Someday, when maybe I have a little more land than the suburban postage stamp I garden in now, I would love to have an all-white garden. Most likely I would go with the brighter whites. I would love to see pictures if anyone has something to show - I am sure it has been done before :-)

Masha

I agree melissa, white makes for a very bad house color,lol. and i would never paint my house a white and red! So i painted my house the neutral color green. But for plant colors, watch out, i love the brilliant whites next to brilliant reds. Somehow i sure ended up with a lot of red/white striped roses! I love the clashing colors that create tension, but then i like the subtle colors that you speak of that quiet things down a little, like the pinks and green grass.
I like the yellows paired with a more purply or burgundy reds, gallica colorings.
Your problem with foetida withstanding the color is something that blooms just as early like more hybrid foetidas, i'm thinking father hugonis, less intense yellow, or there is even a Harison salmon, that i have 2 on order from vintage, that have less intense yellow with some pink or salmon mixed in. so maybe less intensely colored yellows paired with it. but then again i think most rugosas are early flowering, mmm, that hot purple pink color of rugosas matching that intense yellow of foetida, yum!
And i can't think of anything more beautiful than a rose with white flowers and butter yellow buds. I had a picture of a rose in my head with a bloom that had yellow in the middle and white on the edges or viceaversa, and i searched but never did find the rose that was in my head, i just knew that there had to be, there are some that start to get close, but no cigar, and i thought there were combinations of all the rose colors,lol!

While I have long admired white gardens I myself find white very difficult to use in the garden, pretty much for the reasons Melissa mentions. I rarely plant white flowers. I have only two or three white roses, a white hollyhock, and few white foxgloves. That seems to be plenty for me. It may be because I am not a pastel person. I love rich saturated colors and moody subtle deep colors best. White somehow doesn't seem to work here. No doubt a cleverer colorist could do it, but it is beyond my range.

Rosefolly

Not to be contrary, but I LIKE white in the garden. I like it almost as much as I do blue.

In a painting, or a photograph, a very bright or white area draws the eye irresistably,
so if you're going to use it, it has to be a focal point.

I think that happens in a garden.
I like to use white in all of its variations in climbers, particularly.
Garden paths often lead to them, so you have a psychological, as well as an optical, focal point.

Maybe one difference is that I tend to avoid very vivid bright colors.
If I had those, whites might fight them. But with mostly softer colors, the contrast is gentler.

Jeri

A lot of this is going to have to do with light. Years ago, I was very sick, and watching an HGTV decorating show. They had a bunch of California designers working on a London townhouse. In their normal environment, they used a lot of white. However, they were talking about the duller light at a much more northern latitude turning true whites greyish. Now is the time of year when we get bright light. It's cold, clear and the additional light reflected off the snow. During the growing season, there is a lot more humidity. The light color is different, and it affects what the whites look like.

White flowers in the garden are growing on me. A bigger problem is that a lot of whites seem to be weak growers compared to their colored siblings.

I'm starting to add some white roses to my garden, I currently have none. I'm fond of the very clear white of a PJP II or Claire Austin. I think of them as a visual "resting point" for the eye. I've got Mme. Hardy and Mme Plantier coming to bring some white. What are the remotant white OGRs?

Eric

If I wanted a good, dependable White, I'd look for a good plant of the older HT, Snowbird.
It is a rampant bloomer, and fragrant.
In SoCal at least, it is disease-free. And it opens through the normal HT look to a huge flat rosette, not unlike that of Sombreuil.

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Sombreuil itself puts on quite a show of creamy white:
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The Rambler, Silver Moon, makes a BIG statement in white.
And if you're in a warm enough climate, there are several Noisettes and Teas in various shades of white.

Jeri

I like using white in the garden because it really stands out at night. When the sun goes down and things are getting dark there are the white blooms glowing like beacons in the night. They really light up the night garden like nothing else I've ever seen.

I use lots of whites in my gardens also. At times I like the excitement of my red/white combinations. Other times white blends with and softens some peachy-yellows and pale pinks. I agree with lindy that the whites softly glow at night, but they have one other virtue I love: in really HOT, HOT, HOT weather, the whites cool off that garden by at least 10 degrees--or at least it seems like it. That's one of the reasons I always add when white whenever possible.

Kate

To me white sparkles and is refreshing. To my eye it is neutral and it does create a bridge between colors that might not go together otherwise. I like it with vivid colors or soft. I can think of several whites that are vigorous:

Moonlight
Puerto Rico
Prosperity
Sombreuil
Darlow's Enigma
Madame Alfred Carriere
Marie Pavie

I have a cutting of Long John Silver and if that one makes it it'll need a lot of space. Also, Clotilde Soupert is mostly white. Angel's Camp Tea is a white that lights up a semi-shaded area in my garden.

Len, have you seen pictures of Crocus Rose? It's a creamy white with soft yellow centers..I think the buds are yellow.
Melissa I think a softer yellow would look good with your rosa foetida too..maybe Danae or Crocus Rose.

Linda

Another thought for the Yellow problem --

In this cemetery, we found Russelliana (Russell's Cottage Rose) growing with an unidentified yellow that I'm told is not Harisons.
The combination was absolutely beautiful. The lady on whose grave they grew was a Garden Club person, so I'd guess the roses and other plants were selected with some care.

Jeri

Here is a link that might be useful:

I absolutely hate to see red and yellow together, but sometimes white and red look OK to me. I have no problem with white and yellow. One of my gardens is entirely white and yellow. I think it is very attractive. I do agree though that bright very white is more difficult. I remember in watercolor class how amazed I was that there were so many different whites.

Linda, i think crocus rose was one of those the searches brought up, but i finally gave up searching,lol.
I guess a good example of the white,red and yellow in one rose might be the very popular rose double delight, and i have to admit that i am quite smitten by it.

I agree with Lindy-----I love to sit on our screened porch at dusk and listen to all the night noises---The white flowers really jump out at you while the colors just fade out.

Florence

I eliminated whites from my HT garden years ago because for some reason I could never work out, it just did not belong ... only one white rose snuck in a couple of years ago and that was Full Sail and its been a disappointment... however I do make an exception for the albas, but not the HT's.

I think part of the problem for me was a damaged white bloom stuck out like a sore thumb with its bruised black, brown, or grey ringing ... same logic I suppose as to why one should never buy a white or black car ... they are not colors and normal accumulated road dirt screams out at the observer .

As to R. Foetida, a pure white beside it cools it down.

I find that with a yellow like you're describing it is best to make it sort of an object in a millefiore arrangement. adding many colors to make the bright yellow not stick out so much or sometimes a beautiful beige tones down a yellow, Spice Coffee and some of the brown roses might work to make it an accent the way you use one red pillow in a mostly neutral livingroom. Perhaps a few roses like Girona, Flutterbye and Amber Queen would make it less garish.
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Sutter's Gold
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Amber Queen
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Spice Coffee
These are a few I might plant with it to make it more of a team player.
Your essay on white was really nice. I myself plant Sombreuil and Altissimo together which acts as beige and white.I think an all white garden with all the different shades of white would be lovely.
la

In a former garden I had Iceberg next to Mrs. Bosanquet, a pale pink, and near Cl. Cecile Brunner, and that was a very harmonious look.

In my present garden I have a young West Side Road Cream Tea which is coming along beautifully. When I planted it as a band and it first bloomed it was as a white, shapeless flower reminiscent of crumpled tissue paper. Well! Now this spreading bush that is barely a foot tall has beautiful, very large, cream colored flowers, and the cream blends with all the roses near it. Burgundy Iceberg, Le Vesuve, Rosette Delizy, Duchesse de Brabant, Cottage Rose, Ebb Tide, Julia Child, all look good with this color. I dislike bright reds or any screaming colors, but for anyone in a warmer climate West Side Road Cream Tea is a near-white rose which seems to bloom constantly and would be compatible with almost any other color you can think of. This is a happy rose and it has made me very happy.

Ingrid

I love white in the garden, it is so fresh. I love my white narcissus in the spring and my white lilies in the high heat of summer. I like the cool look of purple and blue with white. I have Marie Pavie with some purple salvia and veronicas that marry well. I also used to have Sally Holmes paired with Knockout before I lost SH in the Easter freeze. That was a dynamite combination. I also have Darlow's Enigma that provides a light white sparkle to the summer garden without overstatement.

Some white roses do hold onto their spent petals though, I hate that brown crispy look that is accentuated by the bright white petals. Some rugosas are infamous for that which is why I avoid them (only the white ones though.) Singles and semi-doubles don't seem to have that problem as much and their quiet elegance is a picture of pure simplicity.

Marie Pavie with salvia and nepata
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Knockout with Darlow's Enigma in the background
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Sally Holmes with Knockout
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Other white plants can enhance roses too, here is Maggie with a white clematis
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I'd never be afraid to use lots of white everywhere in the garden.

White is a combination of all the colors. I don't agree, myself, that houses should never be painted white. What about all the white New England houses and churches or the white-washed building of Greek villages? Are these mere 'whited sepulchres'?

Dante likens the center of heaven to a white rose (a semi-double with a gold center). The most beautiful flower in my opinion and that of many old painters, is the glistening Madonna lily (Lilium candidum).

I do think that, ideally, the landscape and the latitude (quality of light) need to be taken account in planning a garden -- and of course one's changing preferences.

I am planning to plant Blanc Double de Coubert this summer. Despite its annoying habit of browning on the bush, its fragrance is to die for. Thinking about it (as with Lilium candidum), maybe it's the scent that lifts it into the realm of the sublime. Whatever the case, none of the so-called substitutes come near it. The reality is that some great things have terrible defects. We humans get tired of anything too distinctive -- that is ours.

In any case, I believe that in the garden, white makes a wonderful companion for pink flowers.

White flowers with dark centers, like Jacqueline de Pre, are particularly charming, I think.

Here is a link that might be useful: blanc double

lol monarda, I should have clarified that with my house should never be painted white, it was that color when i bought it with black trim, it looks horrible in white, however it's a ranch out of the 60's, rather bland architecturely, nothing like a church, new england mansion or greek designed columns. so yes, my house looked like a white sepulchre before i painted it!
Judging by the pictures thus far, i don't see where white of any tint or hue looks bad with anything. Does anyone have any pictures of any white combinations that look horrible? Maybe neutral is only a term to be used with house colors, drapes and carpets, or any other man-made non-natural non-living thing? I'm starting to think that roses have turned the theory of design into a rather weak philosophy. I am trying to enflame the designers here so they will make an effort to prove me wrong,lol!

Monarda, my plant of Blanc DDC is one of my favorite, wouldn't give up that scent for anything, she blooms all summer long and scents the air even at night. Plant her outside your bedroom window and leave it open on warm nights. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh
la

I have to respectfully disagree with some of what you said. I love white in the garden. I use it in high contrast in some places with red or pink:

I also use it in a moonlight garden of whites and creams to yellows to see a glow at night. to see it in both a monocra

I use it to light up areas with effect:

I find with roses it is a color that "plays well" with other colors:

I used to have red and white in the front of the house. We have two white crape myrtles still. Before we decided to go "no spray", we had a circle of Prairie Stars in front of Olympiad, Europeana, and Veteran's Honor. At night the white would glow, but during the day, I thought the red/white contrast was awsome.

Now we have more subtle colors built around Marie Van Houtte. That will also be beautiful. We dug up roses in the back to replace the ones we removed in the front, and we have a huge combination of colors, but no yellow.

I like almost all colors. To me the placement in the key. I have Mrs. Dudley Cross to the side of Ms. Tillier and Cramoisi Superieur. In back of them is Lady Hillingdon. I had to work to see the lighter roses since the reds were so dramatic.

I need to learn how to promote my roses, and make them look good.

Sammy

I'm a little surprised by some of the comments regarding reservations about using white too. I think it looks great with just about everything in the garden. Especially in the photos shown by linrose & lori.

Randy

I didn't use to care for whites, until we moved to our farm and built a house with cedar siding that was surrounded on three sides by pines. White shows up beautifully in such a situation.

I think white goes with everything, pure or not.

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It has been really fun reading all these comments: I'm glad so many people shared their ideas!

Please note that I never said I didn't like white! I love white flowers, and have quite a weakness for white roses--'Mme. Plantier', 'Mme. Jules Bouché', 'Mme. Hardy', loving them for their great purity, coolness, and refinement. It was the question of how to use them that I was commenting on. White goes wonderfully well with cool colors, as in Alicia's photos above, and as in linrose's first photo (and all your photos are beautiful!). I love white in dark places and at dusk, as others have said: I used to have a stand of mostly white foxglove in the shade of my apple tree which was quite wonderful, and for a long time white was the only color I could tolerate in hyacinths--I still can't stomach the red violet kinds. I love pale narcissus, pale magnolias, mature pear trees with their massive white bloom. I like impure whites, along with other pale colored roses, to relieve the heaviness of more strongly colored varieties; I just think the balancing act requires a nice judgement which I don't always observe in gardens. I've certainly thought before, in a theoretical fashion, about how to design a white garden: the delicate and varied whites of roses would be wonderful with various deep greens of box and yew, and with the silver and steel and blue hues of mediterranean aromatic plant foliage. But there are ways to use white well and other ways that, for me at least, don't work, and that's what I focused on.

About the Rosa foetida. Luanne, your roses are absolutely gorgeous, but I don't think they'd work: it's pure vs. impure colors again. Nor white. I like Jeri's combination too, but R. foetida is far brighter, far more intense, than the yellow rose in the picture. My own idea would be the same...what? hue? of yellow but paler, like in the paint store when you use the same combination and ratio of pigments but at lesser intensity. Same for the green; and in a different visual arrangment: that is, stripes versus the blobs of the roses, like an iris with variegated foliage, or perhaps a perennial with tiny blooms dotted through its foliage. Or a small woody plant with variegated leaves. Or one with a basal rosette and flower spikes. In violation of my own stated theory that pure and impure colors don't mix, I'm tempted to try a companion plant with pale flowers of yellowish cream--I can't quite visualize the color, but the thought is lurking.

It's almost February! Spring is getting closer!!

Thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts.

Melissa