I think about how many times in that 20 year old's life he probably acted out in school and with others and somehow no one was able to help him deal with his anger and hate issues. The Old Testament says not to murder, but Christ expands that when He says that whenever you have hate in your heart, you are murdering, both yourself and others, I think. I didn't respond on the "what roses symbolize" thread, but roses are for me a reminder that there is a God who is creator. There didn't have to be any such thing as a rose with its beauty, fragrance, color. They have comforted me in hard times, encouraged me with their beauty, given me a way to share something valuable and beautiful with others, and taught me about patience. In the same way, in our souls, there doesn't have to be such a thing as kindness or love, but God has given us the ability to be that way. I feel terrible for that broken family the 20 year old came from, the families that lost their children, and the resulting fear and terror that will plague us because of it. Politically I hate what has happened to us as a nation because there is so much hate and anger between the two groups. That's the kind of thing that develops in hearts of people so that they want to shoot each other. I think about all the other kids and people that have those same hate and fear issues and think that for myself, I want always to forgive anyone who hurts me because it can grow into something ugly in myself if I don't. It makes me want to try harder to love those kids and people I'm not crazy about that are all around me so maybe they don't develop into people with those same hate issues. The rose I miss most in winter ? Funny, I miss a climate where the season is longer, but I don't so much miss them in winter because I think and plan a lot during the wintertimes, and anticipation is more than half the fun, anyway. Indulgences? I love to make Christmas table arrangements out of the evergreens all around me and give them to friends. And music ... it's not Christmas without John Rutter's carols and Handel's "Messiah."

Thanks everyone. I don't say much about DS online, you mostly hear me griping about DD's picky eating or boasting about her blue ribbon for Candy Apple Jelly last year (she's entering the fair this weekend too, with Blueberry Lime and Pineapple Upside Downcake Jams). But DS is very active in Scouts, and serves at the church dinners every month, hasn't been around much this summer to help me with market but last year was a great help, coming with me to market in summer to set up and tear down (he'd walk to the library though, not stay with me the whole 3 hours). He did pack the truck a few times this year, and last month when I got home each week he'd unpack the truck for me. He spent 5 weeks away this summer, 1 as a camper, 1 as Counselor-in-Training, and a 3rd week invited back as unpaid counselor (but they fed him!) to sub for the college kid they fired from archery instructor position. So we think he'll be hired next summer ;-). Then 1 week at Youth Leadership camp (that was just the other side of the state) and another week hiking the Long Trail with DH, another leader, and 3 more scouts. He is 5 years older than DD but is amazingly patient with her and she adores him, he even lets her into his room to use his laptop for her homework (and will help her with it). He's very quiet, I don't see him much even when he is home, he comes down for mealtimes and to watch Jeopardy, the rest of the time he is studying, reading, listening to music (he loves country, bluegrass, folk - like the kind you'd hear in the Museum of American History, sea chanties and Appalachian music - and "world" music) or playing guitar. But it's still going to be strange to just be the 3 of us when he leaves for college. How did that happen so quickly??

I imagine it must be difficult to want to help your child every step of the way, to make their lives easier, perhaps, than your's was at their age. I don't have kids so I've avoided that minefield. But boy do I ever hear from my friends and their kids, lol. I think about how my parents were with my brother and me (both are now dead). They were pretty much "all about" getting us to a stage where we knew right from wrong, listened to our consciences/inner voices, knew how to discern between "need" and "want", and were able to figure how and when to indulge "want" with minimal worry about how to fund it. Teaching us to be honest, resourceful, and hard-working was their goal. "Lazy" and "entitled" were probably the two worst things they could ever have called us; and the same could be said of the helpmeet and his brothers. I hate to come down too hard on young people in general, because I know many fine, hard-working, industrious kids. But I do think there are a lot more very pampered, spoiled kids now and I have to say I hold their parents responsible (parents who are my age!). I think it takes a lot of guts to post the sort of question you did, Wigardener., would that more parents did! You're right on this one; accountability and responsibility build character, even though the adjustments can be bruising (for both of you). You're right on this! don't let the "guilties" eat away at your resolve. Remember, much as you may want to, you are not in a position to foot the college bill. One day your son will reflect on this time in his life (the way I have in the past few years) and he will arrive at new appreciation for all you've given him.

He made a great choice on the car front! Great gas mileage! (Oh, yeah -- and a big pat on the back on his degree and getting a job that he's liking!) I know a parent can never really "relax" about your kids, but you get to breath a big sign of relief that he's on solid footing.