The Etiquette of Lying--I have a question

16 years ago

Sometime ago an acquaintance of mine asked me to lie for them.

Specifically, they asked me to help engineer a believable lie for delivery to a third party.

The situation arose when this ex (gasp) acquaintance of mine asked for help. As the dialog progressed it became clear that they didn't actually want help in the conventional sense but simply wanted to plumb the depths of my professional knowledge to serve their own interests in their own way regardless of whether or not I found it insulting or demeaning to even be asked to do such a thing.

Nevertheless, they were in deep trouble, obviously confused and grasping, so I chose to simply decline to assist them without bothering to heap my indignation upon their truly troubled situation.

As you might expect, this individual--this "person" no longer speaks to me. (triple lutz gasp)

Complicating matters, (double triple lutz gasp) I actually extended myself to this person--some time later--and "apologized" for not being "supportive." Now then, obviously I owed them no apology for refusing to be used but I somehow thought it'd be a nice gesture that took into account that their circumstances weren't optimal at the time. (idiot me). My reward was a curt, snotty reply.

I'm embarrassed to ask this at the ripe young age of 50 but I suppose my question is:

To the extent that people like this are--unfortunately--a fact of life--how does one deal with them diplomatically?

Other than "no, I can't do that" is there any way around this type of bs?

MichaelAT

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (16)

dublinbay z6 (KS)
16 years ago
Stay as far away as you can from people playing mind-games and indulging in the fine art of leeching.

You'll retain your sanity (and self-respect) much longer.

Kate
bettym_grow
16 years ago
No. Don't lower your standards. Don't feel guilty either.
You did the right thing.

JMHO,

Betty
Related Discussions
Fence etiquette questions
Q
Comments (9)
I know that if I suddenly lost 15' of property that myself and others thought I owned for the past 17 years, I'd investigate the property line location as best I could on my own (using prior records) or consider having a surveyor verify the line location. ... the reason being that surveyors are human and can make mistakes. I know when I've had my own properties surveyed that the new work sometimes shows errors (relatively minor ... a few inches) of the old work. It's always puzzled me how surveying seems not as precise as I would have thought it to be. And that the newest work seems to reign as being somehow magically more mistake-free than previous work. If you're resigned to accepting the new survey as correct, so be it. That the neighbor is placing the fence AT the line surprises me. Usually it's set back just a little, how much would most likely be determined by the local controlling authority. I'd check on this issue just to make sure that the fence doesn't need a little clearance from the line. It might be that code requires a set-back. If there is anything to be done about it, then the time to do it is without delay. Delay implies acceptance which makes changes later more difficult, or impossible. That the fence company demanding a survey is not the same company installing the fence after a passing of time seems as if an error could be made more easily. This is just another reason to verify survey claims. Neither would I accept that this is a $900 cost. I'd make calls to a few surveyors and inquire to find out what the "ball park" cost is since the loss of a fair amount of property might be worth paying a bit for. I wouldn't consider it neighborly if a neighbor stacked anything against the back side of my fence. Given that all of my fence would be on my property (so long as it's on my side of the line) then anything stacked against it couldn't help but be on my property, too (another reason to set the fence back a few inches just to make sure it's on one's own property.) Something stacked against or pressing on the fence could cause damage or soiling. By the same token, I would consider planting as I wished on my own property (... probably carry on my love for English ivy!) While you might get useful advice about "etiquette" here, that's not really what you need. You need legal advice in order to get answers to some of your questions. The book mentioned above will probably be helpful, but you MAY need advice specific to your locality. Start with the book and go from there. If the fence turns out to be on neighbor's property--or you accept it as such-- then I'd be careful not to behave in any way that would appear as if you didn't accept it. Doing so could be the start of neighbor unfriendliness and possibly later, "war." It's not fun to be stuck next to someone that you develop unkind feelings for or vice versa ... especially since it started out that you have a good relationship with, and like, this neighbor.
...See More
Hello, an etiquette question, and a menu question
Q
Comments (18)
Sounds to me like the husband opened the evite, didn't mention it to wife, wife was embarrassed and got snitty with husband. Now, husband is defensive and unconsciously tries to make it your fault. Or, he's one of those people who actually deletes emails and vaguely remembered the evite but not the particulars. In any case, your wording seemed clear enough for me. But, I also know from experience (over two decades in the restaurant biz) that it is fairly common for awkward situations to occur once the check comes to the table. You never know what bad experiences people might have had or even what flea might have bitten their butts on the day you encounter them. I have learned in life that when people are rude, prickly, or difficult, it generally has more to do with what is going on in their lives than in anything personal. I'll join the crowd and suggest some fruit, nuts, cheese, chocolates etc. Make it things you would have a reason to use as leftovers, since people probably won't eat much after a good meal. I don't think you have to offer too much in either the way of variety or quantity. If you had cocktails or wine with dinner, I would make sure to put out a tray with a pitcher of garnished ice water and nice tumblers so people who don't care to drink any more alcohol can have something that looks/feels "festive" in their hands. A restaurant where I dined recently served their water with slices of cucumber and strawberry in it. Very pretty, different, and surprisingly fresh tasting.
...See More
WWYD family etiquette question
Q
Comments (29)
Since they obviously feel that payment of some kind was the right thing to do, I would accept the $ graciously, thank them, then do whatever you think is right. Keep it, spend it, donate it, but don't make it look like you're rejecting their "gift" by telling them you're giving it away. I'd simply say that you'll do something special with it. But don't tell them what, unless it's a treat for you and your husband and you can say how much you enjoyed it.
...See More
Working with realtor etiquette question
Q
Comments (12)
eld611, it's not that I have decided I will not use her; I haven't decided anything about her. I haven't really begun evaluating. She is literally just the very first agent I met at the very first open house I went to, though she seems friendly. She sent emails, and I replied to them, 2-3. At some point, I began to wonder if doing so meant that she thought we were in a semi-committed relationship, lol. And I didn't want to be a jerk and lead her on, when, you know, I was just at the bar and talking to the friendly person next to me. Then we met again at the line for the bathroom and struck up a conversation. Then when she sees me kissing some other guy in the corner of the room, she'll feel betrayed like "I thought we had something!" I don't want to be that person. The first few posts led me to believe that our interactions were not the sort that would lead a real estate agent to expect commitment. But then the last couple of posts led me to believe that in fact, after that level of interaction, agents *do* think they're with you. So to be on the safe side, I guess I will not reply to any of her further mass emails until and unless I decide she's the one, and if or when I decide she's not the one, drop her a note to let her know I've gone with someone else.
...See More
kathy9norcal
16 years ago
How about, "No. I am just not comfortable doing that. Sorry."

My almost daughter-in-law did that with a nephew recently, and I am proud of her.

Kathy
sammy zone 7 Tulsa
16 years ago
They are what they are, and they have gotten it from their parents. They will never understand why you will not lie for them. My high school is a bad analogy, but some kids cheat, and some don't. The cheaters make it a big game, and they find those who are like them. The other students avoid them.

These people do not understand the word "integrity", and had you allowed yourself to be used, they would have asked again and again.

You did what was right, and possibly your only problem is doing what I often do, and that is trying to explain my answer. A smile with , "sorry, no" is all that is needed.

Be proud.

Sammy
taureau
16 years ago
Just kindly say, "I can't do it, sorry". It takes a lot of energy and memory to lie. You have to always remember the lie, so you can repeat it again and again. You also have to have more lies to cover up the first lie. It just never ends. So don't start it.
michaelalreadytaken
Original Author
16 years ago
Thank you all so much!

I just have these moments where I wonder if I've just missed "something," if that makes any sense.

It's really not the same thing but when I was in school and in college, I always seemed to attract these types that wanted to be "friends." Of course, it took me practically to the end of college to catch on--no, I won't sit by you and give you the answers--that kind of nonsense. That has happened to me more times in my life than I can possibly remember. I was soooo introverted, so geekly that I'd always assume it was "me" when they suddenly didn't want to be friends anymore.

Much has changed since then but I still tend to have a very strong reaction to stuff like this. It gives me the creeps.

MichaelAT
theroselvr
16 years ago
Michael, I'm convinced that people in general stink any more. Everyone seems to care only for themselves... this is a good example. They didn't take into account that you'd also have to live with this lie and if it was something that went to court, would commit perjury.

I say better off without them. They weren't true friends to begin with if they couldn't understand you couldn't do it.
pagan
16 years ago
MAT - good for you! I have had to let friends go because they wanted me (or DH) to engage in things that were ethically wrong, at least for me - latest example is a woman who I had known for about a year. She got arrested for DUI and wanted my dh (a deputy) to help her out, get her out of jail or reduce the charge or whatever. He refused, and I don't blame him at all - the woman was drinking and driving with her 10 year-old daughter in the car, and the arresting officer siad she was totally gone - BA of 2 something... so anyway, stick to your guns. Friends like that you don't need.
carla17
16 years ago
I agree with all of the above. It's obvious to me they are only thinking of themselves, not your moral ethics!

Carla
barb_in_dc
16 years ago
Michael,

I believe we all had a discussion of "toxic" people some time ago. You might want to think of this person in this context. You just have to avoid them at all costs, because they will suck into their muck and not give a d**m about the consequences to you.

Why should you spend another minute of your life worrying about those with no integrity?

Barbara
rose_nutty
16 years ago
MAT, I for one understand your second-guessing yourself. I think we all do at one time or another. I have a friend that I was like a sister with for several years (or so I thought). In retrospect now that I can see clearly, I see that it was mostly one-sided on my part, and that she was clearly using me. Most of the effort came from my end of the friendship. It took me the better part of a year to realize that I was better off without her, and I grieved that friendship's end just like it was a death. Truth be known, if she came to me now with a sincere apology and the desire to be friends again, I'd forgive her and start all over. I think you did the right thing, but that doesn't mean it is easy.
User
16 years ago
I'm not a diplomat I always get in trouble when I go do the UN thing.......... pack of...........diplomats! Yuck! I did however pass one of these people on the street a week ago and we nodded 1st time in 5 years. She asked me to co sign a loan and I was a bout to side step it but hit the iceberg head on. I knew she was in a 12 step program for debting and whe she said why would'nt I co sign this loan I told her my train of thought could only infurriate her. Go ahead try me "well I know your a recovering alcoholic and drug addict and If you asked me to score some heroin for you and pick up a six pack on the way to your house I would aslo have to refuse! So I can't be part of your debting! This person got me my current job and garden spot heavy load! This person owes the world and was divorced when she dragged her husband into her chaotic finances! A polite nod is as far as I want to go!
kittymoonbeam
16 years ago
No matter how awkward you feel now, you would have felt so much worse to have helped in the lie and a hundred times worse if it was found out, especially if someone had come to harm because of it. I lost friends this way too and it always feels terrible.
bbinpa
16 years ago
I'm 62 and it has taken me a lifetime to learn that some people are users and some are givers, some neither give nor take.

My latest policy is be honest, grateful for favors, giving when there is true need and above all do not play politics. There are always those who just love to pass on gossip, or scheme to gain what they want from other people. RUN from those people. They will never be friends.

Barbara
and good luck
meredith_e Z7b, Piedmont of NC, 1000' elevation
16 years ago
Hey, MAT :)

This is #23 on the list of why I warn people that I'm goofy and odd and geeky...

I say "I'm nerdy that way, sorry... No" and smile :)

Good luck!
Jean Marion (z6a Idaho)
16 years ago
Users don't care about you, they care about themselves. Here you are thinking they are thinking about you, and all this time they have already written you off as a possible person that is useful to them...

I try not to be polite to users... that way I don't have to worry about them attempting to use me again in the future...

"Wow, how did you end up in that type of position?" usually works...

The Etiquette of Lying--I have a question

Comments (16)

dublinbay z6 (KS)

bettym_grow

Related Discussions

kathy9norcal

sammy zone 7 Tulsa

taureau

michaelalreadytaken
Original Author

theroselvr

pagan

carla17

barb_in_dc

rose_nutty

User

kittymoonbeam

bbinpa

meredith_e Z7b, Piedmont of NC, 1000' elevation

Jean Marion (z6a Idaho)

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

The Etiquette of Lying--I have a question

Comments (16)

Related Discussions

michaelalreadytakenOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

michaelalreadytaken
Original Author