If the spikes are initiated, then everything is cool. The plant won't change its mind. Don't forget that Phals are warm growing, so are one of the first to come in for the winter.

When I still grew phals I usually brought them in only when the temps were too cool. Once I did that the spikes really grew fast - much faster than outside.

K

Me too. Bring them on in. Had a few phals that started to spike. As soon as they did they went to the window. You run the risk of damage outside. Great Job Mehitabel!

Clara

I leave mine in an unheated porch until the nights get too cold. I remember reading that Phals which are warmed before the spike is 2 inches, it will throw a keiki instead of buds. Think it was the AOS article on Phals. Heat produces keikes.

I find that Catts throwing sheaths can stall if left chilled. Mine are on the porch now, but I may move them in the house tomorrow. But the Phals will wait.

Jane

Hi, Jane. Thanks for the tip about spike length. It's been so cold lately (40's one night-- I brought them all inside overnight)) that I wanted them safe inside. But next week we're in the 60's again, so outside will be a kinder place.

As you said in another thread-- chasing the weather is a pain in the humph.

Jane
Do you know anything about the Beliina types and the kei kei situation? I hate leaving those out in 45º

Clara

I'm not Jane but P. bellina is a warm grower and shouldn't go below 60 and can go above 90 with ease. Regarding the keikeis - I think they mean if the temps are high for a long period of time, it might produce keikeis instead of blooms.

Brooke

Clara, my Bellinas have been in the house. I wouldn't fool with this weather. It was 39 degrees this morning.

Excessively chilling phals to stimulate spikes seems to me like one of those "shut your eyes and heave the basketball the entire length of the court" desperation plays that sometimes net one the extra points needed to ace the game. However, had the game been well played from the opening minutes such would not be neccessary. Lots of light, heat and water and food during the growing season will result in spikes in anything called a hybrid. For species some custom tailoring might be in order but if you find yourself flirting with temps down near 50F you have to ask yourself why this is because unless your species actually expperiences temps like that in nature (not likely) you are simply stressing the phal rather than helping it to spike.

H

It is not the low temps that stimulate the hybrids to spike but the difference between day and night temps of 15-20 degrees. In a greenhouse you don't need to play with the temps because you get a big enough fluctuation between the two. Most people growing in their house don't turn the thermostats up and down 15 degrees so it is harder to get them to spike.

Brooke

I do not have any trouble getting the Phals on the kitchen windowsill to initiate spikes because i am a stinge bag and rarely run the air conditioning during winter.

Most winter mornings the temperature there is about 12C. I keep violacea at about 16C winter nights though i think it would do better with more warmth.

Ten days of 80's-60's coming up, same general pattern as list year. Veddy nice. Hope it does the job.

As Brooke points out, "chilling" is the name given to the temperature drop at night-- ie the day/night differential.

Arthur, way to go. But no way I can get that kind of temperature drop this time of year inside this house.

Howard: trust me, they have had plenty of light all summer, and also now. Any really cold night, eg 50 or so, they can be wheeled inside on their cart in about 2 minutes.

I used to believe that the temperature drop was required -- well no - I don't know if you can still get this but you should look at Dr. Wang's article at Texas A & M. This works !! 70-75 degrees plus light -- a friend said she couldn't get hers to when I told her this and then her electrician changed all her ballast on her florescents !! Bingo everything spiked. I did this in a sun porch and it works but you need I think at least 750 on my light meter If you want to delay things put some shade cloth over the plants. In Taiwan in the past I am told they would load the plants up and drive up to the mountains -- where I am I want spring. Now I have an amabilis orchid konnection and it blooms twice a year -- without my trying -- could all phals -- if you warmed then dropped to 70, I don't know

Do not forget that the temperature drop is not required for all Phals. There is an FAQ that includes Dr. Wangs. comments.

At the local orchid society's spring show held late next month one of the major Genera on display will be Phalaenopsis, count back 110 days from say the 20 th of October and you will see when the spikes started to grow.

I am not suggesting that you have to drop the temperature to 12C in fact that is too low for good Phalaenopsis growing but you have to make do with what you have.

This temperature drop confusion occurs across quite a few Genera. examples Nobile type Dendrobiums, Den. kingianum, Den. speciosum. How much of drop is needed??????. I do not know!!!! All that posters here can do is relate what happens in their conditions.

Similar comments apply to Tolumnia hybrids. I have hundreds of them. They can get down to 5C. in my glasshouse, way way too low. but like clockwork they initiate spikes late winter so i have lots of blooms in late October/November. Might be a slight chilling in the habitats of the ancestors that causes this effect. It is possible that they do not need the chill, might be day length???

Yes, day length as a factor for some makes sense to me, Arthur. I think that's true of oncids, because they start spikes here as the days shorten in August, but it's still very hot. P. amabilis, too.

as you say, they each probably have their little ways that we don't know about, and we can't know definitively.

That being said, CJWatson said last year she was leaving her unspiked phals out as the nights cool (or lengthen), and that's good enough for me.

Parkside Orchids says it takes 16 weeks from the time they start cooling off the phals to bloom. They use this fact to bring phals into bloom when they need them for shows and holidays.

As of now, the phals with the tiny spike nubs have been inside for 6 days, and all the spikes have grown visibly, tho still small.

Before bringing them in, they had spent at least a week outside after the spike nubs first appeared with no signs of growth.

This is making me think:
They have to be getting something down in my basement that they weren't getting out on the deck--

1. More light? With the sun on the deck shrinking every day, it's possible that the lights below, on for much longer than the sun is available outdoors actually amounts to more light. I just can't calculate it.

2. The greater warmth at night? The week with spike nub spent outdoors was a cool week, with coldish nights.

It's making me think that I might get more spikes in my basement than I would outdoors. I've read dozens of different versions of the "how to get spikes on phals", and all talk about *increasing the light at least 50%* as well as the drop in temperature. Some say the temperature drop only needs to be 10 degrees.

Going to start this as a new thread.