Hi M!
To answer your question in brief: Consistent conditions is what they get indoors that they don't get outdoors.

But if they spiked a week after you brought them in, that is due to your outdoor conditions. (Did I read that right?)

I also have a very basic question: Where do phals grow in nature? What part of the world? With so many hybrids I really don't know. Somewhere in Asia?

You know Howard started a controversy in the beginning of summer about better to leave plants inside during summer. I think it was a WC8 post. His rationale: Indoor plants have more consistent and controlled conditions; provided one has a proper set up; (which you do). I left some in and put some out. They get a better drop outside but honestly, it did not make that much difference with the exception of the Bellina types.

I didn't have the heat to give the Bellina's inside and at one point during early summernot enough heat outside. (cool early summer here) When it warmed up, they took off. But they don't look as pretty as they did. If you remember, I took a pic of a stalled out plant and then put it to the roof where the buds popped open within a week. They possibly would have done the same inside, given time and if I ran no a/c. The point of that post was the heat factor. It was one of your famous "great threads"

My indoor regular phals did better than the ones I put out. The sun changed very fast and I had manufactured shade. If the wind blew too hard, they would risk a good burning. If the temps fluctuated too much they would suffer, especially if I had watered. Rot was prevelent at the beginning of summer; too cool, too much rain. I am running dry now as the summer ends. Even at that, still found 1 last week that has a good case of boitris. It is an oncid that will not make it.

I noticed for my outdoor conditions, the high light (vanda types and , some intergens) and cloud forest orchids (yes the extremes) are the ones that did well. The middle light orchids really didn't do as well as I expected. (paphs, standard phals) Next summer the middle group will be the ones to stay in.

I also noticed the overall health of the plant mattered. If they were in peak health and went out, they did well. Rehabs (almost recovered) went back to bad. The "purple plum" rehab phal went back to purple and back into the hospital. I should have pulled him inside when he greened up. "Called it good". But the light devil in me took over and Satan's bright attraction completely unwound my sense of logic.

Some that went out this summer will win no beauty prizes but they will bloom. Not sure I like that. Storms, winds, pounding rains, roof rats all contributed to their scrappy look.

They may grow a little bit more slowly inside but if you have the right conditions, inside is better. However, I am like you and needed a break from the mess. There is no way to wrangle 200 plants neatly in my space :-) The roof looks like a landscape of tropical debris and so do some of my orchids. Live and learn

Clara

It is about time for Phals to be indoors. They grow in Southeast Asia and the parents of most of the hybrids we know are warm to hot growing. They are also slow growing, and when you see a spike it was not initiated in the last week.

My opinion of the temperature swing that initiates Phal spikes is at least 20 degrees. Having said that, I only have a few Phals that don't do all that well because I have trouble getting the light down to their level without impacting too many of the other plants.

Thanks for the comments, Clara and Richard. Much appreciated. I brought half of them in this morning. Going to mull things over for the rest of the day, re-read some of the culture notes, see what finally makes the most sense.

Richard, I would hate to not get spikes on at least some of these because of lack of the temperature swing.

Clara, I love your comment about the landscape of tropical debris.

I really appreciate your comments on your summer growing. One of the reasons I decided to give up on catts and oncids and concentrate on phals was the difficulty creating the right amount of "shade" outside. Summer '06 I nearly expired trying to rig up midday shade that didn't shade them the rest of the day. Also the storms, hail and otherwise damaged the leaves.

This summer, I left the few remaining catts and oncidsto their own devices (they look pretty awful tho the oncids have spiked), and concentrated on the phals. I used the carts, and was able to wheel them into shade in a flash. So it wasn't so onerous. They also could come inside in a couple of minutes if a storm threatened, so no ugly leaves, except for an occasional small burn if I miscalculated.

I got great growth outside earlier this summer (the warm nights factor), but right now isn't the same. The sun is at least two, maybe three hours shorter, and I've lost my enthusiasm for putting on and taking off shade cloth.

Going to read up and again this afternoon, and will post an update.

Can ya get your growing area to a 15 or20 diff? If so you'd be forgetting the great outdoors. Hard to kill off an oncid. I had a few on a balcony this summer and forgot about them, Got spikes. They may be best left like Dietrich.. alone
Mike

Hi, Mike. Can't get that plant room below 70 this times of year. It has earth behind two walls, so naturally insulated, and the plant lights warm the room up, then it has no way of cooling off until much colder weather. Even in cold weather, it never seems to drop below 65.

Well, I went back to my phal gurus-- Bedford, Big Leaf, and Bedard Culture notes. Even read the originals, instead of just my notes.

There's just no precise conformity on advice. They all agree that mostly they spike when ready. Big Leaf says a 10degree drop for 1 weeks helps; Bedard says 60F at night will flower, also keep the drop less than 20F. All say increase light.

I took "inventory" of new leaf growth, and it is still going on, but slowed from a few weeks ago, when I was getting 1" a week. That says to me less light, not more. Probably as good an indicator as a light meter.

And there's no such thing as 60F nights here. It's either cold, in the 50's, or warm, with temps closer to 70. There's also no less-than-20 degree drops.

So I brought them all in. There's just so much fussing and precision and then my brain explodes. My decision rule is, if you have to fuss too long, it's too close to call, so just pick one.

So they're all downstairs, and I'll just have to see which of them put out spikes and which don't. I will update as soon as I see what happens.

Meantime, I had a lovely afternoon messing around down there. AND I would still like to hear from others what they do. Please! Need data!

Doesn't it bug ya when you can't find what ya want? Been on the net' since '90. Thought I could find all orchid info by now.

Tossing out an idea. Since you can't go lower w/ temps, why not go higher? Keep the bottom end stable, boost the top end range? Energy efficient ceramic heaters or the liqui-gel heaters. Seen 'em for 10-15$.

Depending on your grow area, you can fiddle with heast control to perfection. Patience is needed with the heater controls. Not a fine tuned instrument. Run it for a couple hours in the morning get 'em toasty. See how fast your heat loss ratio will be. Did it when I lived farther North. Works & is synergistic with the human inhabitant. A/C 'em in the summer and heat 'em in the winter. The Phals may backwards from situ but hey, a big 'ol bloom cycle is a welcome site any time. That's the basic principle behind pro-grow manipulation of bloom cycles
Mike

Was also moving plants around today and the sun direction has completely changed. The side of my deck which got full sun all day only gets some East and West now. I have neglected my plants by not being home most of the day.Got lots of sunburn and had to move them around today. Put some Phals outside last week and left them out all week. It was cold at night.

What I found. Lost a seedling to rot (no suprise, too cold.) Most Phals are spiking. Got multiple spikes (2 spikes on each plant) on 3 Phals . I have 8 Phals. All but two are in spike. Those two were repotted last month because they got knocked out of their pots. They are making roots. I think the repotting set them back.

Spiking is a growth process. Once started, it will continue unless the plant gets sick or damaged. My spikes continued even though the plants were subjected to cold nights - 40's.
I have an Equestris which was also left out. It is making roots. That surprised me as I was so angry for forgetting to bring it in last week. I was sure it was a goner.

Brought them inside, where they will not get the light they did outside. I swore I'd never put my Phals out again, but did this summer. Lot of sunburn, but also a lot of growth.

It is supposed to warm up again this week, and I may put them out again. I experimented with my hardcane dens and left them out in full SW sun. They are all in spike. Some are budding and I can see the depth of the color is greater than it would be if I brought them in when they first started spiking (which I always did in the past.) I'm amazed they did not stall despite the cold nights.

I left all my Catts out except species. I'm keeping my fingers crossed they don't develop rot. Many are maturing growths or in sheath.

The problem I run into with plants staying indoors over summer is humidity, light and air movement. My house is air-conditioned and stays dry and cool. Phals do better with warmth and humidity. They all love the warm breezes. I am hanging on to the last bits of summer for my plants. Some have been in for the last few weeks, but the majority are still flirting with the weather.

I'm thrilled about getting double-spikes and am not sure why.

Jane

Great thread! A classic "Mehitabel" thread :-)

Jane -I put some standard phals out too. They didn't do well either. Same thing. My shade is manufactured and the risk of burn was high. Even the ones that didn't get an accidental burn didn't show any great benefit by being out to be honest. Exception was the Bellina types. Standards did just as well as being under lights.

I did learn that at this time of year and early summer, run orchids dry if they are out and the weather cools. Cool is not the problem. Cool & wet is the problem that makes rot. (accuweather dot com and watch for rain). Run them bone dry when it cools down (you shouldn't have a problem with that...giggle)

It will be 90 today and a threat of rain tonight and tomorrow. Then our weather goes back to high of 70 id 40's on Wednesday orThursday. I have to start the trucking orchids.

Sederea, neo's and some masdes, lycastes will remain out. Thankfully, I will be toting water only by the gallon. Summer is over :-((

Mehitabel- I kind of do what Mike suggested. I have a little heater and ran a hot room last winter. It does work. The orchid schedule goes backwards but its ok. I got some yummy blooms this year, just not a the "right time". I could get the hot rooom up to 85+º easily. I put the heater on a timer once I had the controls figured out. I closed the vent in this little room so the night temps went down to 60 so I didn't have to freeze

Clara

Thanks for the comments, everyone. I do have a small back hall downstairs that can be heated, but gets coldish at night. I moved some lights in there last winter for a couple of weeks. It's kind of a pain to set up, tho.

I'll just wait a couple of weeks and see what I get without it, then maybe set it up again. I did find two little spikes yesterday emerging from under the sphag instead of from the upper leaves, so there may be some more that I haven't seen yet.

Jane, double spikes, you lucky girl! I agree about phals loving the warmth, humidity and breeziness of outdoors. Providing the right shade is very hard on a deck, tho.

One thing I haven't seen anyone else mention is whether the newest leaf has reached maturity. I find that my phals don't "walk and chew gum" at the same time--they do best if they are either growing leaves or spikes, but not both. I keep mine in a small GH in the summer that gets too much shade. It's warm, humid and breezy enough, but not bright enough. This year I finally got smart and bought 2 125 watt CFL's, and installed them in July. They took off in terms of leaf growth, and are still growing leaves. In my experience, phals spike best if they finish their newest leaf in early fall when the night temps are dropping. I think one of the culture sheets says they bloom best if they get more light at that time, as some of the leaves fall from the trees in their natural habitats.

I tried to find the actual paper, but Dr. Wang was or is at Texas A & M and has done extensive research on this topic. Last go round I tried this and it works ! You must have enough light and enough was 750 on my light meter. Commaercial growers have two tricks to preventing phals from spiking 1) heat 2) light If you are hot then you need to cool the plants to initiate. This is a reprint

Diana in Houston nicely shared her notes under a thread called "Phal Insider Growers info." Arthur and others added information and had questions. The following is primarily Diana's editing of that original post. Thanks Diana!

I just came from my orchid club meeting where we had a local wholesale commercial phalaenopsis grower as the speaker. It was interesting but nothing special until he and Dr. Wang, our mentor and reknown orchid researcher, started talking about what was required to make phals bloom, and have more flowers, (a specialty of Dr. Wang's). Here's the scoop: 1. A phal NOT blooming can be determined by temperature AND light. A commercial grower can KEEP PHALS FROM BLOOMING until a particular time by keeping the temperature above 82 degrees. However, a cheaper way is to shade the greenhouse with 50% shade cloth. 2. To initiate spiking, the temperature must remain consistantly below 82 degrees. A temperature of 90 degrees, even for a short time, will prevent spiking. 3. To have more flowers on a spike, from the time the spike is 2 inches, until it is 8 inches, the temperature must remain consistantly between 65 degrees and 77 degrees. Day and night difference is not involved. This commercial grower gets the phals as 4 to 6 inch bare root plants from Taiwan. He pots them in 4 inch pots and grows them on for about 6 months, at which time they go into 6 inch pots. He then keeps the benches of phals he wants to spike under plastic with an air conditioner (on 24 hours a day) at each end until the spikes are 8 inches tall (approximately 6 weeks). He then moves them out until they have 4 or 5 flowers open, then delivers them to jobbers.

Believe me this works !! I spiked about 300 phals I was growing under lights one year - all seedlings -- all novelty -- I gave 290 of them away and to fund raisers for charity. Prior to that I grew only in a greenhouse but I lost not one bud in my air conditioned light room. He also did a study on why that happens -- I wish I could find the study but this little article sums it up very well

The title of this thread is a puzzle, perhaps should be spring blooming Phals, but anyway Dr Wang's article explains why i'm lucky to get 5 blooms on a standard type Phal as i certainly cannot maintain a temperature range of between 65 and 77F in this house in late winter.

Bud drop is another subject and i do not know the answer. Unsuitable conditions or unsuitable potting materials? One that dropped most of its buds was a first flowering seedling that was growing in a very small pot. Think that the winter watering routine was letting this particular plant get too dry between watering intervals of once a week. Will see how it goes next year in a bigger pot.

This has turned out to be a thread that didn't simplify things one bit, tho all the comments were very welcome. It has given me a lot of things to try to be more observant about. Maybe I can extract a little more information from this year's blooming as well.

Holly, that's an interesting observation about leaf vs spike growing. That may account for the advice to cut back on nitrogen in fertilizer, using bloom booster fert, or epsom salts this time of year. Have to start noticing from now on leaf/spike relationships.

Pamela, I had read Diana's original post on Dr Wang's research, but then discounted it as not complete when I got spikes on 7 or 8 phals this summer when temps were 95 or more. But then, re-reading her notes in the FAQ, I came across Arthur's comments about Dtps changing the equation...

I haven't checked every one, but some of the hot-season spikers were Dtps. Tho Dtps don't always have a lot of D in them. When I check which they were, and the % doritis in them, I'll post if there's anything there.

So, on balance after reading all this I think I had better put at least some of them back outside. After some storms tomorrow we have a run of maybe 10 days of 70's--high 50's. It's a 20-pt drop tho.

That was my original plan anyway. So now I'm back to "chasing the weather" for another week or two, Jane. Much better than the prospect of a winter without flowers, tho.