dave: Wish I could attend. Please let us know what you learn. That area has low heat units for grapes, much lower than most grape areas, even those in ID and WA. How much do they have to spray? Once visited an apple orchard near there and they were spraying about 20 times a yr. If you can please report on the top table grape varieties and how they taste. Thanks!! The Fruitnut

You guys say what you want but for me that is one of the most beautiful gardens for texture and color I have ever seen. I went to their website and read their story....pretty straight forward. I'm sure some of my details are off but....... It's a UK couple that's been into gardening for years. Loved Acers and Azeleas. Started this one about 10 years ago when they moved. Back lot is basically 170 X 60. Fenced back with major tree rows down each side. Recently retired. They garden every day and love it. They built every bit of it by themselves including the two full size pagodas and the running waterfall / creek. They pride themselves on it being a 4 season garden...thus the name. It's been named "best garden" and won several other awards. I say if they don't mind caring for it, then great. No-one can deny it is gorgeous. And I bet a lot of plain lawn loving folks would look at most of OUR gardens and say "Man is that way over the top or what". All I can say is I'm analyzing several of their shots to see which of my favorite plant / color combinations I see and really like are usable in my climate......and I made it my screensaver. mark

That is a very interesting concept. I like it. Talking about bullying is becoming part of the curriculum for school counselors. But what goes on among adolescent girls is very different from boys. I sub (I'm trying to find a full-time teaching job!) and I can see the girls are much harder on each other than boys. Oh, they are tricky. And so often, they think they aren't doing anything wrong. They seem to think they are just on the right side of the line, but haven't quite crossed it yet. When really, they went over the line a long time ago. Or they don't see their participation as a problem b/c their own role might be small, but combined it's huge. I think it is such a part of their social life they don't recognize the problem. I am interested as a teacher and a parent (my only DD is 9 now). I want to know how to better handle the girl variety of bullying, in the classroom and when it affects my own daughter and her friends. I don't have answers for you. But I'll help you look. ;o) I think the idea of a separate discussion with girls is a good idea, b/c the bullying is different than boys. They need definitions so they know it when they see it; so they think about what they do or don't do. They need girl-specific tools to handle that kind of emotional bullying situations. If it's not already happening, I think the discussion you're talking about is a good idea. It's late, I can't look too much right now. I started to get somewhere when I googled "bullying intervention girls." I am linking an article I started to read and found interesting. It's 36 pages long, but the last 10 are resources. I'll keep looking, too, on and off when I get the chance. The subject interests me VERY much and I want to learn strategies I can use in the classroom. Here is a link that might be useful: Girl-to-Girl Bullying

Lol Steve. I am also planning on taking pruning shears to a bunch of mine that are way too bushy and out of control. I wish I had done it earlier but hate the thought of chopping off good new growth. I will try and save the chopped branches for cuttings.