Ok, I'm curious, why are you putting that polypro nonbreathable barrier down? If it is for killing the life in all the soil below it, you will be doing a fine job indeed. If you looking to do weed control, why not just mulch, which will add to the soil below gaining air, water and of course nutrients? If you are putting the barrier down to do weed control, I can promise you that seeds float in the air, animals burrow and dig, and people walk and transmit seeds this way as well. There never is a weed free garden, only one that is weeded. :) Is there some type of masochism involved in doing 'allotment' gardening?

Hi Pudgy. I did refer to this in my post of the 20th. It's only a temporary measure (say 6 months at most) to get rid of the perennial weeds (Horsetail, Couch Grass and Field Bindweed) that are there. I'm liberally 'pin-pricking' it, but intend also to open it up one side when the wind permits. In point of fact I intensly dislike any kind of permanent plastic weed barrier and intend to rely wholly on mulching come next spring. Nothing so drastic as this will ever happen again, I can promise you, but I didn't wish to do as was suggested by two other nearby allotmenteers, and resort to 'RoundUp'.

My title 'Allotment Clues' might be somewhat misleading as to my experience (it was orginally 'Allotment Blues' - the title of a song I wrote) and I expect I will make mistakes, but I sincerely hope that this board has other more positively-minded folk. Your post was very confrontational.

Tim

"Your post was very confrontational, I thought" is better there, sorry.

Actually I'm pleased now that you raised this like you did, Pudgy, as it's made me realise that 'Allotment Clues' is better with question mark after it (i.e. 'Allotment Clues?'). It doesn't now make me sound like I claim to know 100% of what I'm on about, which I never intended. A sincere thankyou then :o)

Tim

Hi Tim,

I checked out your blog. Was that a train in the background of one of your pictures? Actually, I was in england recently, and I did see allotment gardens near the tracks.

Nice level site you have there. And a tarp is an ok way to smother weeds for the winter, despite what pudge says. In the dead of winter you might want to remove it and allow the soil to store moisture?

You should see my allotment (not an 'allotment' as such, I rent an acre for $10 a year, but the garden area that I can manage to till by hand is about 50x100 ft, at most). Covered with a managerie of smotherings - old futons; rugs and quilts; sections of wood-shingled walls and plywood; cellulose insulation; hay that I cut from the rest of the acre; and etc.

Being in southern england, you are lucky also not to have deer to contend with. I have been trying to get by with site-generated fertilizer only for about four years now, and it is difficult to get much yield without manure inputs. Between the deer, insects, drought (no irrigation on site) and lack of fertilizer I've learned that it doesn't pay. I just do it for the heck of it. If one's life depended on it, the deer would have to be shot, a well dug, and a cow or other manure-dropper installed.

Time,
I did look on your blog but what is an 'organic allotment'? Is it a government program, is it simply garden plots or is it something more. I've seen this word now a couple times but I don't know what it refers to. I looked at your page and it does look like it will be a nice plot of land.

You might read the FAC on the soil forum that discusses interbay mulching, something similar to that (an English version :) might be of interest to help you build your soil while smothering weeds.

Hey timsh,

Good luck on your endeavors and I look forward to seeing you around.

I saw on your web page that you have to deal with a nasty weed that is really difficult to control (horsetail). The link you had on organic controls indicated that using black plastic was equally as effective as cardboard and straw.

The latter method is what Kris was referring to and is a zillion times better for your soil. Given that the test results indicated equal effectiveness I would encourage you to give it a try. It is known as lasagna beds, interbay mulch and probably other names. Long story short is cardboard is placed on the ground to smother the weeds and then several inches of organic matter is dumped on top (although I wouldn't use just straw). One then plants in the organic matter (I didn't think the plants would grow well due to cardboard blocking the roots, but the garden I created this way became the best performing garden in my yard).

Over time the cardboard decomposes, but first the weeds are smothered. The advantage of this method is you don't have to remove the plastic and you can plant right away. You may want to do this once the growing season rolls around and you have to remove the plastic. That way you can still keep smothering the weed while growing on your plot.

Hi Tim. Nice blog. I'd be surprised if only six months kills couch. I did some no-dig gardens laying down thick wads of newspaper. The couch has shrugged it off and is everywhere.
Next time I'm going to dig it out to a depth of 15cm (6") or so. I know that takes away most the useful soil life but so beit. I'm not dealing with couch again!

Kris, allotments are common areas of land set aside for gardeners. You can 'rent' an allotment to grow your veggies. They are especially useful if you live in a flat (appartment) and are common throughout Britain and, to a lesser extent, France. I don't know about other parts of Europe. They may be common evrywhere.

Wow! Thanks, everyone! I was a little worried over the strength of my reply to Pudgy, and in hindsight I feel I should of let it pass much more gracefully. It's an easy thing to get hold of 'the wrong end of the stick' :)

Yes, I'm increasingly unsure of whether six-months will be long enough to eradicate the worst of the perennial weeds, especially considering I've put it down during the dormant winter months (although I'm hoping it's dark colour will cause the soil underneath to warm quickly next year and fool them into thinking it's an early spring) :)

I'll probably follow your suggestions of using a cardboard or newspaper layer to try and keep them down if they do still give an appearance, and I have (the fool's?) hope that if I'm prepared to 'keep at em' eventually they'll decide elsewhere is better. Also, one of my reasons for going to town over the depth of the trenches I dug to secure the sheeting, was that I'm considering cutting one side off at soil-level leaving a 'barrier wall' in place against reinvasion. Is this a good idea do you think? Personally I'm in two minds over the thought of leaving a piece of plastic in the ground.

Over here (UK) I'm pretty sure most allotments came into being during the Second World War as a way for townsfolk to add to their supplies ('Dig for Victory' was the slogan). Interesting it's where this idea of digging a garden over each year was started. People with previously little or no experience of growing food crops looked at pictures of farms in books (all their prior knowledge), saw that farmers tilled large fields, and tried to recreate the scene in their gardens and allotments. This was a mistake as it's increasingly being proven, I've read, that small beds tended from the edges are best all round (from the soil's and yield's perspectives). This 'no-dig' method's the one I'm going to adopt first on my allotment I think.

Cheers again, all!

Tim

Here is a link that might be useful: My Allotment Blog

> Was that a train in the background of one of your pictures?

Sorry, I omitted to answer this in my last reply. I'm not sure that it is a train in the one I think you are referring to, pat (those are modern warehouses - you can just make them out in my very first post titled 'All Go!' back in October - red and gray, top right) but you are right in thinking that a railway passes along there, between us, so to speak. Fortunately it's an electric line so there's little chance of pollution from the trains themselves (which being generally of a modern design are very quiet) but I am concerned over 'drift' from the chemicals I think they use to keep the tracks clear from weeds. I'm eventually (before I plant any vegetables at least) going to enquire to the train/rail company to find out their safeguards on this issue. I'll let you know how I get on. Another thing to worry about though :o(

Here is a link that might be useful: My Allotment Blog

You'd think british rail would have coolies to do the weeding. Too expensive, I guess.

Anyway, this thread has started to make me think that I spread my resources too thinly at my allotment. I think I'm going to choke down to the flattest and most productive area and concentrate the hay-mulch there. Less labor put in on planting and weeding, hopefully bigger return per unit. I may also wrap the smaller area with another wire fence (I currently have a barb-wire fence around the whole 50x100 that they can jump when they really want to). Deer don't like to jump into small areas, generally.

I'll start using the less productive area for perrinial planting like rhubarb and asparagus.

It's rabbits I think I'm going to find are the biggest nuisance where I am. I'll probably be posting in the future asking for advice on the best ways to see them off! :)

Encourage a ferret to take up residence. Just kidding. No help with rabbits I'm afraid. It's kangaroos and wombats we have to fend off. We do have rabbits, and deer and foxes for that matter, thanks to early settler homesickness, but they don't cause much of a problem, except the foxes if you keep chickens!
A barrier/edge/gap around the patch works for me. The only nasties in the weed department I have to worry about are the ones in the patch. Over the warmer months, I go round the edges every month or so to discourage any would-be invaders.
You're right, in time, the problems with perennial weeds will slowly dwindle!
I look forward to regular updates.

Thanks, Ray. I'll hope to keep it going (sometimes I've been known in the past not always to finish the things I start - but this'll be different I think :o) ).

Tim
http://allotmentclues.blogspot.com/

Here is a link that might be useful: The Garden Survey 2006