Yep. Take a look at the "growing bulbophyllums in trays of water" thread. Lots of us noticing how limiting water actually is in our collections.

I posted the 'Bulbos in a tray' thread and have noticed something. I'll write about it after I fully explore it for a week or so but it pertains to what you are saying.

Imagine plants sitting in a tray of water, now getting a couple of weeks old and now we got mosquito larva playing in the water. I decided to change the water. I had my ppm meter with me as I was doing something with Draculas and just for the heck of it I tested the water in the Bulbo trays.

To my astonishment the water the Bulbos and Co were sitting in tested lower than the 'Clean Water' I was using next door on the rain forest plants. I was getting readings of 110ppm, 123 etc. One tray actually gave a reading below 100ppm.

It's obvious that the plants are using up the nutrient and leaching the water. My tap water is about 300ppm, I add 200ppm of nutrients and kept adding water to the trays, with nutrient. Despite this the ppm dropped suggesting to me that the plants are eating more and faster than I thought

I plan to set up some trays with daily measurements to see how fast the nutrients are removed, I will report on this in a week or so, if there is anything there worth reporting.

In your situation, I think plants do better with more water and more fertilizer than many of us use. Water once a week and fertilize weekly weakly sounds good but you can also water more often depending on your circumstances and fertilize more until signs of 'too much' appear. I go way over the limit on both and don't have burnt leave tips or burnt root tips, I therefore don't hurt the plants who are growing vigorously.

Nick

Nick & Terp,

I copied the "Bulbos in a tray" thread and stuck it in the Culture file. Fascinating.

Right now, the watering schedule is plain water, fertilizer, leach, repeat - mostly because virtually all orchids are in sphag, a medium that works extra well for me.

Same schedule for the mounties. Some are mounted on sphag/cork; others on cork only; one's on tree fern; one's on grape vine.

The mounties usually get soaked every day. Now, plants in sphag & plastic pots are soaked when the top of the sphag is crunchy.

Nick, yes, please post when you have more data re: nutrients being removed from your Bulbos in trays.

Thanks, guys.

wc8,

Pretty small collection here, about 50+ currently grown indoors most of the year.

I'm a soaker also (used to use a watering can for 170+), I now use a tupperware type bowl and change water between every plant (well, most of the time anyhow :-( ). After reading the 'bulbo's in water tray' thread, I decided to move a couple of masdies and a few paphs into trays of water (I already had 2 phrags in water trays that were doing fine), I actually use individual plant trays that are just a bit larger than the pot. It's been about 2-3 weeks, no notice of anything bad and lot's of new growth.
I haven't taken the plunge to fertilize the water in the trays as I'm indoors and don't care to deal with the grunge, but I do flush once a week (mid-week), and water with fert once a week (weekend).

On another note, it's been hot/wet/humid here in OH for about 3 weeks. My 20 or so summer outdoors 'kids are loving it and performing wonderfully. I usually put out just 2 or 3, the big ones, but this year decided to move out quite a few more. With all of the rain and humidity, they seem to be doing great, but then again so does all of my outdoor stuff this year.

So I have to agree that it seems that I tended to underwater in the past based on the last 12-16 months of dunking and the outdoor 'kids response this year.

Bob

The other thing I noticed, which I did not know in the beginning, is that algae growth, which is the main source of the grunge, does not seems to occur nearly as much in tap water. The chloramine probably keeps it in check. Lots of algae growing in the RO water + fertilizer I grow the rain forest plants in.

Be careful about the water trays, I had to rescue a couple of plants who obviously did not like it. The ones still in it are going gang-buster. In the beginning I checked every plant at least twice a week for new vigorous growth and removed them if this was not present within a couple of weeks.

Nick

I find the water tray thing very intriguing, but for some of us (me in particular) who can't quite take the complete plunge of having orchids sitting in water 24/7 how about this compromise:

Drill tiny holes either in the bottom of the tray or the sides so the water would slowly leak out over a period of x number of hours. This would take some effort to figure out - number of holes, size of holes, how fast you wanted it to drip out. You would of course have to have the correct setup so the draining water wouldn't cause any problems. The goal of course would be a period of no water in the tray if you drilled the holes in the bottom. However if you drilled the holes in the sides you could control the ultimate depth of the water - for instance - 1/4 inch from the bottom of the tray would mean the water would slowly leak out until it reached the 1/4 inch depth mark. Again, some figuring out necessary.

Worth a shot?

Kevin

Kevin: Using individual trays, I see where they dry up after 1-2 days generally. I'm a little nervous too, so I let them sit dry for @ 1-2 days a week. Your solution sounds a lot like Ray's S/H, other than he advocates always wet. I personally struggled with S/H in the colder winter temps in my grow room (especially with my favorites, phals), I'll have to see how the trays work in comparison.

Nick: I have pretty bad tap water, I've experienced a lot of tip burn in the past because of the high solids. You know that white crud that forms on a glass after the water has evaporated. So, R/O with 10% tap for me, it grows a little algae in the trays even without me adding fert :-( I assume it's from the fert bleeding from the pot from my weekend fert regimen.

Bob

Bob - I also have problems with S/H during the winter!! arrg..I also forget to water them sometimes because I mistakingly think there is still water when it's been dry for weeks (I'm a lazy waterer).

WC - I love sphag too...what is your grow list looking, these days? :) I remember your asian cymbidiums - I just got an ensifolium from a friend and have it in perlite/sphag/charcoal mix but it doesn't seem too pleased...what do you grow yours in?

Nick - that is incredible, actually. I would have assumed that with evaporation, salts in the water would be concentrated. I can't comprehend how this is possible, as it would indicate that the plants are taking up nutrients at a rate faster than they can be concentrated by the effects of evaporation...is that physiologically feasible?? With 500ppm dropping to 100ppm, that's pretty significant. Is it crystallizing on the edges of the tray? I'd be very interested in seeing what the results of your experiment are.

I have slowly converted everything to things that can be spray-watered because I use RO water and dunking everything is too wasteful. This means things are either mounted (probably 75% of all my stuff is now mounted) or potted in something loose (unless it's a terrestrial). I water every day with a 1.3L spray bottle...this takes care of 90% of the collection, which was pretty surprising for me! I alter how much sphag goes under the mount depending on how dry/wet things stay by the next 24 hour cycle (more for moisture loving things) and it's nice cause I can see/touch for moistness. I do have 2 bulbos that are not too happy (mounted on treefern with lots of sphag) so maybe I will try sitting them in water to see what happens. Anything to save on watering!!!

Bob, sounds like Nick has put us on to something w/ this more watering/constant water option.

When I had Phrags, each pot was in a saucer of water. Between waterings, I let the saucers get dry and then waited 1-2 days before watering again.

Calvin, just updated my list.

My Cym was goeringii, 'Teikan,' marginal variegation. Originally, it was in aquarium gravel. Next, a mix of Alifor, sponge rock, small bark, & charcoal. The third medium was sphag. All were suggested by one grower or another when the Cym didn't bloom.

The Cym was in each medium for about a year. 1-2 new growths in each medium, but no blooms. Finally, one grower said theirs had never bloomed, either and theorized this Cym needs 30F temps in winter.

No way could I provide that, so I sold it.

Stitz's Cyms bloom. Maybe he has some tips.

no tips on Cyms here; I have never owned one.

--Stitz--

It's really nothing new. Bill Thoms has been doing it for years with his Bulbos, Phrags are commonly grown this way and the old SH method is just a variation. Some grow orchids in water only, no media at all. There is an extensive discussion of this here:

http://www.usapatriotsamerica.com/culture/water.htm

I have tried it and it works. I don't use it as I don't find it user friendly, having to empty the containers of water weekly, cleaning them and refilling them does not blow my skirts up, but the plants don't object.

I got a variety of plants from Cal Orchids once and on the way out asked the owner, James Rose, some culture questions about growing them this way or that way. He cut me off and said: "It ALL works."

As long as you keep an eye on the plant and let the plant tell you if it's happy or otherwise and as long as you are consistent, virtually everything will work. Some methods work better! That's really the trick isn't it. So far I'm convinced that these water trays work better for Bulbos, Rain Forest Plants, Phrags and some select species.

I'm also convinced that roots are adaptable and grow to match the requirement of the current situation. I often buy plants who have spent their entire life in a pot full of bark. That's what the roots are used to. I take them out, discard the bark and grow the plant bare-root. Existing roots are less than happy, linger and fade while new vigorous roots grow which are perfect for the new environment. The same is true when you first put a plant into SH. Existing roots die off and new ones form.

Then there is the most important factor in orchid culture: YOUR PERSONAL SATISFACTION AND HAPPINESS. Most of the members of my orchid society appreciate the fact that they only need to water once a week and wonder why I go to the trouble of creating situations that require daily care and attention. The answer is simple: "Because I like it that way!" As long as the plants grow well and bloom, the method of achieving this end should be entirely an individual choice. There are a few lines in the sand you cannot cross. If you want Dend nobile to bloom you cannot sit them in a tray of water all year long, they need a dry Winter rest, but most plants will adapt to most conditions.

Some plants just simply don't want to adapt to the conditions I create and absolutely won't do well in my care. 'Don't let the door hit you on the butt on the way out' is all I have to say to them as I take them our silent auction or give them away. There are many star fish in the sea, as they say, and even more orchids on Ebay or the tables at orchid shows.

Nick

Bob

I can see where individual trays might not work for what I proposed, but I'm talking about larger trays with many individual plants. In any case, here's what I'm trying. Since all my plants are outside now, I can experiment to my hearts content and modify as I go.

I took a couple of those disposable foil cake pans about 9 inches square, punched a couple of pin holes in the sides of the pans about 1/2 inch from the bottom. Since I water all the plants daily, the pans should fill up with water and then slowly trickle out until it reaches the 1/2 inch mark. That 1/2 inch of water in the bottom of the pan should keep everything evenly moist throughout the day. I'm assuming through evaporation the pans should be dry by the next day, but hopefully the plants should still be moist. At least that's the goal. Modifications will be necessary I'm sure.

Kevin

Kevin,

Sorry, I was not too clear in my post back to you.
Putting the holes up on the sides a bit is how it seemed like S/H to me...

The only thing that might concern me with doing multiple plants in one tray would be a virus/bacteria type thing spreading to all in the tray. But then again I don't always change water between dunking different plants either, so ease of use seems like it is a factor in how I treat the 'kids.

Bob

Stitz, just know you're successful w/ Asian Cym species... in my mind. :) Wonder who I've got you mixed up with? Whoever it is can give Calvin some media suggestions.