KBG germination ----- 7 days from my experience

16 years ago

I have read here and other places that KBG takes up to 30 days to germinate. However, in my own experience, I have seen it start coming in in 7 days. But since I tend to seed different parts of my lawn with different seeds, and since I have a mix of grasses to begin with, I never trusted my own experiments. That is, until.....

My pure KBG test is with my neighbor, who I am helping with a complete renovation. He seeded with Scotts Pure Premium KBG a week ago. Today, little seedlings are coming up in many spots of his front lawn. No other seed was spread.

So, why do people say that it takes weeks for the seeds to germinate? I would amend that and say that, perhaps, it takes weeks for ALL of the seeds to germinate - but you can/will get some germination relatively quickly. This seems to be the case with most of the people on this forum who are also renovating their lawns with KBG. So while people are preaching extreme patience when giving advice about planting KBG, those who are planting it seem to be getting earlier germination than the expert web sites seem to suggest.

thoughts?

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Comments (17)

billhill
16 years ago
KBG has a wide range of germination times. There are a lot of variables, Air temp, soil temp, amount of direct sun, number of sunny vs cloudy days, soil moisture, soil nutrients, presents of lack of mulches, type of mulch. Soil types, clay, sand, loam, compact. not compact, Can anybody think of any more variables affecting KBG germination times. Absolute optimum laboratory conditions would probably yield some germination in four days. Two to four weeks is common under normal field conditions. Some germination occurring at 6 weeks. Bill Hill
bestlawn
16 years ago
I've never heard 30 days to germinate. Up to 3 weeks to germinate and up to 30-45 days to fully establish. That time frame is largely due to it not germinatating all at the same time.
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My advice, and I've seeded a lot of KBG and other mixes, is this: don't put too much down. It's tough to tell when that is, but I'll try to give you a guideline or two: 1. Go get your toothbrush, and set it on the windowsill, with the bristles sticking upward. Imagine that that's your grass, three weeks after seeding. If your seed comes up that dense, every last grass plant will die, except for the ones on the outside edge, about fifty of them, that can actually get some sunlight. The rest will die. No sun. Too closely packed together. Too much seed got put down, too close together. You even got germination, eh? Too bad. They'll all die, except for the ones that are able to get some sun. So in this example, that's TOO CLOSE TOGETHER, or too much seed in one place. That's obviously one extreme. Let's go to the other extreme. If you plant just a handful of seed, to where the ground is barely speckled with some seed, but you can see all the dirt, with a few white flecks (the grass seed), it's too thin. Each plant will likely come up, and be healthy. But you'll have bare spots, even after the grass sprouts, and the fact that KBG spreads out (over a year) won't make up for the fact that you've got a thin lawn there, and could have done better. That's the other extreme. Here's how to find the middle, that successful middle ground. Keep in mind that this is an APPROACH, a way to get started. Bestlawn's advice, just above, is correct: if the seed maker wants 5lbs of seed to cover about 2000 sq feet, you should measure out 2000 sq ft, and decide that that package will be fully used, in that staked out area. But here's how to get started. You, or somebody in your family, enjoys fried eggs. More than that, you or they enjoy pepper on those eggs. Not scrambled, but fried, over easy. When you put pepper on those eggs, you don't DUMP the pepper, you sprinkle it, moving the pepper shaker, so that a nice, evenly distributed amount of pepper is all over the eggs. You look at it. If there isn't enough pepper, you sprinkle it again, very evenly, perhaps even more lightly, but you're adding more pepper, and when you're done (with that application), you'll look at it. Again. If you moved too fast, you'll even more lightly sprinkle the pepper, evenly, and then you'll look at those eggs, until the pepper is JUST RIGHT, as Goldilocks said. Here's the deal. Don't tell me you don't like pepper on eggs. Somebody does, in your family, or circle of friends. Fix the eggs. I want you to, with the pepper eater at your side, lightly, lightly, sprinkle the pepper on those eggs, evenly, to the VERY POINT, that the pepper eater says "NO. No. That's too much, and I'm not eating those eggs. I could have lived with it, last time, but this last bit you put on there, hey, it's just too much, and I wouldn't eat the eggs. I'm not going to do it. Gimme some new eggs, or take these away." That's it. Take a very good look at those eggs. With evenly distributed black spots, the pepper, and now imagine that that's your dirt, with a bunch of evenly distributed white spots (your KBG seed), at about the same density. Nicely, evenly spaced, but you're only going to apply it up to a certain point. That's it. YOu're there. You're done. Move along, and seed somewhere else.
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You can certainly overseed now if you want, and the peat topdressing is a great idea. With a quarter inch of peat atop the seed you can safely drop to watering once or twice per day once your original seeding is fully sprouted. Don't count on that before Day 28. By then temperatures will be down, so will evaporation, and the water you put down won't leave as fast. Also, when sprouted it's really THIN. Like threads. It takes a while for that seedling leaf to garner enough energy to develop a good crown and start growing real leaves. I know we all look at first frost as the end of the season, but for your grass it's a signal to start moving into fall mode. You don't want frost on new seedlings, but even if the root systems haven't developed yet, they have plenty of time--until the ground freezes solid. 'Round these parts, that's January most years. December in a few. Never November. You can water at a higher rate through mid October and get away with it just fine. Yes, you'll have some losses, but you would have anyway. Second...patience. Below are my photos from day fourteen and day 35. Recap: Day 14 (two weeks!): Day 35 (FIVE weeks):
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Oh that makes me feel good. I was looking at my lawn this morning and we had some rain (thank god!). I have been only keeping my lawn very damp and it actually has been dry in between waterings due to well issues. Anyways I seeded the same day as you (Labor day?). I noticed on Sunday some grass starting to germinate around the sprinkler heads where it has been a little wetter. Since then, it has started germinating more in the yard, although a lot of areas I still see nothing, which I simply am hoping is a function of *less* water and not that the seeds have died from lack of water. Hopefully. Anyways - I think I will see a lot happen in the next few days. Thankfully, this rain has given my well a chance to recuperate, provided a nice soaking for the entire lawn, and the next few days are supposed to be in the low 70's which will help keep the moisture on the lawn instead of evaporating like it did last week when it was in the low 90's. Keeping my fingers crossed!
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turf toes, Your front yard certainly looks better than mine did at the same time two years ago. I'm not sure I believe that 100% (lol), but thank you very much! Your lawn was actually what inspired me to renovate mine. All last winter my plan was to overseed this fall with seed purchased from a big box store. Then I came across those photos of your lawn on another forum (which also lead me to this forum), and I knew right then that was the lawn I wanted! I think it even listed the cultivators that you used. So thanks again! The above statement is 100% true! Hey, how about some updated photos of your project this year! Paul, You are quit welcome! I have gotten alot out of this forum for myself, so it feels good to be able to help someone along the way. You are going to have a sweet looking back yard next year, and you'll be a pro by next year should you decide to do the front! FWIW, I just went out and mowed again (mulched this time)at 2-1/4" , wow I'm not use to cutting that low! 3" was always what i've done in the past. There are actually a few area's that really still have not been mowed. All of them are where there was either a small flower bed or a burning bush, I wonder if I should throw some organics stuff down there? Even though I will be fertilizing with TB with iron on Sunday.
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turf_toes
16 years ago
Rutgers,

Bill and Mallory are correct. Yes. You will see some germination in 6-or-7 days. But usually, you see folks talking about "full germination." Which means that the stuff that is going to germinate has already done so.

For that, the 21 day period is probably the safest bet.
parafly9
16 years ago
I only have 10 more days ! Argh! >>> paces back and forth in front of lawn You should see me. Every morning on my way out and every afternoon on my way in I go veryy.....slowlly...down the driveway, analyzing every inch of the yard. hehe.
rutgers1
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks for the responses.

I am thinking of setting one of those traps where an intruder falls into a pit when he walks on a pile of leaves (a hidden shaft) for my mailman. He doesn't seem to care that I am seeding despite the fact that I told him.....And I almost wrestled the UPS guy to the ground when I saw him trouncing across my neighbor's lawn. It was totally clear that the neighbor is growing grass, yet he walked across like he didn't know - or didn't care.
morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
16 years ago
My north face had its first cut (to 2") today. The western face at the lower edge hasn't even sprouted much, but it's starting.

Conditions influence the speed of sprout--the north face is wetter and cooler and shielded from midday sun. The western face is dry and hot and gets pounded by sunlight.

Even so, there's still sprout coming on the north face, just not very much any longer.
quirkyquercus
16 years ago
Uh oh, hope it's not poa annua. Or something else you didn't want
I think its probably pretty uncommon for kbg germination that fast
paulinct
16 years ago
FWIW I had a similar experience - six days to first sprouts with sod quality seed.
ajer16
16 years ago
I've sown KBG quite a number of times over the last 6 or 7 years. Germination has usually started around 6 or 7 days in late summer seeding. The longest wait for germination has been 12 days, and that was a spring seeding with cool soil temps.

Another important factor not mentioned above is the variability from one seed lot to the next. Some are just faster than others, and once in a while you might get some seed that is still in its post-harvest dormancy period. In that case you might have to wait quite a while to see any grass babies.

A.J.
darius_07
16 years ago
My first sprouts came in at 7 days as well. Just a few that first day, then more each day.
iowa50126
16 years ago
rutgers...

I think letter carriers and the guys in the brown shorts take great delight in trespassing on all lawns...especially those owned by us "lawn wackos". They know who we are! And love to mess with us!

Several years ago a neighbor nearby had addition built on his home. After the construction he re-seeded the lawn in late August. After a day or two, I noticed some "Keep off the Lawn" signs. Then days later he put up really large "Keep off the Lawn" signs.

Finally.. He staked up some 4 foot re-bar and attached some yellow plastic "Keep Out - Crime Scene" tape around his yard.

I never found out if it was a deterrent or for real...(grin) And his lawn looks great.
morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
16 years ago
Finally.. He staked up some 4 foot re-bar and attached some yellow plastic "Keep Out - Crime Scene" tape around his yard.

Hah! Can I get some "Keep Out--Or It's Gonna Be A Crime Scene" tape? The dipstick neighborhood Lawn Doctor flunkie cut across my lawn today. I nearly Had Words but contented myself with a glare.
paulinct
16 years ago
My letter carrier and fedex/brown guys are all great guys so I have no complaints, but do keep in mind that if you mess with them you may never get some of your mortgage bills, and some of your packages may just disappear.

Same reason you NEVER complain about fast food if you know what's good for you....
eastpenna
16 years ago
Although I opted not to use yellow crime scene tape, I did set up some re-bar and used clothesline. People get the idea to stay off. It also reminds me!
lawnfreak1
16 years ago
Rutgers: Kentucky bluegrass germination time varies by variety and by seed lot, among other variables.
In my experience, big seeded common or forage type varieties like Kenblue, which I believe is used in Scotts Pure Premium (check the label), as a rule, germinate in about half the time (10 days) as a typical elite type bluegrass.
Two years ago I planted about 15 diffferent improved varieties side by side. If I recall correctly, germination ranged from 12 days (Midnight II) to 25 days (Midnight). If you tried to duplicate the test today using new seed lots, you would probably get the same time range, but the order of the varieties might be different.
As a rule of thumb, I find the better the ultimate lawn, the slower the germination.
turf_toes
16 years ago
Midnight II == six days.
parafly9
16 years ago
I had first sprout at six days but I just now am really starting to see it coming in in more areas of the lawn. Yesterday I accidentaly had my sprinkler off (i turned the main shutoff valve off the night before because of low pressur eand was going to turn it on again at night) but turned it on again yesterday. we are supposed to get some more rain today. It is starting to come in, though, in most places slowly but surely. It's been 11 days now.

KBG germination ----- 7 days from my experience

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KBG germination ----- 7 days from my experience

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