your only other choice is diligent cutting at least once a week for a number of years into the future, and you'll prolly miss some - check link below for technique using Roundup, which will still require continuous work for a couple years

Here is a link that might be useful: about the wisteria problem

Actually, I understand that RU isn't the best choice for woody plants - Brush-B-Gone is supposed to be better. Check the label on whatever you think you want - before you buy it!!!

And while you will get flak from mentioning using RU on the Organic Forum, there are times when a one-time application is the only practical thing to do - unless one of the naysayers would like to come to your house once a week for the next couple of years and help you deal with the wisteria??? Beautiful as it may be, it's a rampant thug!

The American selections are better behaved, and flower more than once - my SIL's is flowering again on her pergola - but even it needs trimming back several times a year, and much tieing in as it grows.

I planted a wisteria to grow up some dead pinion trees. It is rooted in one place, although this is only 5 years old and the trunk is maybe 4" in dia. I figured that if it ever knocked down the trees, I could cut it off at the base and spray it.

Is this one rooted in several locations? It sounds like it.

There never is any good reason for someone that really is organic to use Roundup, Brush B Gone or any of the other plant poisons. Diligent pruning of the wisteria will kill it off as quickly and effectively as these poisons. Both of hese products are known to drift more than 200 feet.

Thanks folks.
kimmsr, i sure understand where you are coming from on this topic - and have always felt the same way.

If you saw this mess - and had to think of dealing with such a non-native plant taking over the farm....i wonder if you would let it go or even attempt to cut this out. We are talking a solid mesh of roots and plants now over a few hundred feet around - covering everything. Much of this extensive root and vine system is in the woods and covered with forest humus. Even with any chem controls - which i have NEVER used in 35 yrs of gardening, i doubt this can be eradicated. There is no way to cut and pull it anymore - even if i could work at that one task on the farm for 40 hours a week. I simply would be unable to find it all.

As i feel strongly about non-natives taking over the countryside, i simply must explore all avenues. I knew that on this wonderful forum i would receive flack for even mentioning the R word!!! Thanks for you conviction toward NOT using the stuff, but there may be exceptions in all areas of life. I wonder what you would do if this was on your place? It is a hard decision for an organic grower to even think about.....but you should see this mess.
I will do nothing, until i explore all options - and even then it may not be effective in any way, as rampant as this plant has become in 25 yrs.
If there was ever a single trunk, it is long gone and is now about 1000 separate vines ranging from 1/2 inch diameter to many that are 3 inchers.
Glad ( but not about this!)

Among the spectrum of people who post here are those, like myself, that are very familiar with the problems of invasive, non-native, noxious species and the 'damage' they do - they can change the entire ecosystem. Anyone familiar with the arid west knows what has happened with tamarisk, Russian Olive, Russian thistle, cheat grass, toad flax, Russian knap weed, and over millions of acres of private and public lands. The careful use of herbicides is one of the useful tools, and in many instances, about the only viable means of control when given the thousands of acres affected. I use them myself when appropriate.

I had a similar experience with a Clematis species that I purchased from a local nursery, a vine out of h*ll. Within 5 years, it had knocked down my deer fence, overgrown a 20 ft high pine tree and a couple 10 ' high lilac bushes, rooting everywhere it touched, and throwing out millions of seeds, which are sprouting all over the place. I waited until winter, cut down as much as I could and hauled it to the dump, and sprayed the numerous stumps with RU. They came back, and I sprayed again. They came back again, and I sprayed again. And I'll spray 'em again and again until I get rid of them.

I would ask around to the county extension agents, and even go so far as to visit some of the weed control folks, and get as much information as you can. There is a lot of knowledge out there on the most effective times, application rates, and specific chemicals that are going to be the most effective.

There are some broad leaf herbicides that might be more appropriate, perhaps in combination with RU. Good luck with it.

Thanks, David52! You do know what i am talking about, for sure. The photos of the invasive plants on the link sent is just what is happening here. I do not know if we can eradicate this at this point ever - very sneaky stuff. The main trunk is not apparent anywhere now - and i'm amazed and saddened by how this has grown. It is up maybe 40 feet into some of the forest this year.
I may try to hit it in winter first. Once i spent a whole day pulling and whacking the vines in the cleared area. You could never even tell i was there afterward, sighhh.
I will investigate with my local help - extension, foresters, etc. Not much help around here.

Glad (except for about this sorta thing)

If you're going to use Roundup, use it at the right time of year! RU works by translocating to the root, and then killing the root. It has to be sprayed on the leaves and taken in through the leaves to make it to the root. Summer through late summer is best, as this is the time when plants are sending lots of carbs down to the roots.

A non-drift application is the safest method to use, even though more tedious than spraying everything in sight.

As has been said, Brush killer is more effective on woodies than is Roundup.

Here's a method which works best with two people on the job:
Cut the stems off during the growing season.
*Immediately* apply Brush Killer to the cut surface of the stub in the ground.
Repeat as needed.

This is not a one-time fix, nor is any other method. It's your new hobby for the next several years.

Caution: If you skip a year, you will be back to ground zero because you will have lost any advantage you may have gained.

You don't have to spray the leaves. As the post above says, cut the vine close to the ground then brush undiluted roundup or other vegetative killer on it. Better yet, drill a hole in the stump and pour it in.

I am using this method for an invasive cross vine that I tried to dig up but it keeps coming up all over the place.

Wisteria is invasive in the Southeast. Unless you've see it and lived it, you can't know what it is like to get rid of.

Thanks Buford. Alas, any main "trunk" is long hidden, and there are hundreds of thick vines coming out of the ground in about a 300 foot area, half in the woods. I am not yet sure if the whole project is even doable anymore.
Glad - but not about THIS problem!

One more thought on roundup or any glyphosphate containing product which is the active ingredient on roundup. You need it absorbed by leaves or the cambial tissue (the green layer just below the bark but not to the (white) sapwood. This is where you will see the best translocation of herbicide to get to the roots. Instead of drilling a hole in the middle of a trunk of (wisteria in this case) scrape and scuff up these trunks and branches and then use a foam (painting) brush to apply to these exposed areas within minutes of exposing it. A solution of 25% to at most 50% should do the trick. I also have used a few squirts of soap in the mix for better sticking and spreading. I have taken out many an invasive wood shrub (tree) and many types of woody vines with glyphosphate. Active growth is always better these kinds of treatments than winter which would be a waste of time IMO. Good Luck and I wish I had a kinder solution to offer but in some cases an invasive out of control plant takes this kind of approach. This a last resort but in this case seem what is going to be needed to eradicate this pest. I have drilled and filled and I have scrapped and scarred and the scrapped and scarred worked better for me. The only other approach to was as good was spraying a higher concentration 10-20% active ingredient on new foliage in the spring which also proved to be very effective. Both of these methods showed death of treated plants up to three years later. I left after that so I can't say with absolute certainy that they never came back.
I wish you luck with your challenge and Happy Growing (except in this case) David

P.S. If you choose to use glyphosphate don't use any of the products with diquat or other material in them. They are ill suited to this purpose and may even negate what the glyphosphate does.

I'm amazed that you let the wisteria grow for 25 yrs before deciding it was invasive. Not that I haven't done the same thing myself (chinese lanterns, mint) - compared to your problem an easy fix. But maybe you can try to get people who make viny craft things to cut it down for you? Seems like just the thing for embellishing twig gates and such. Charge them to come cut it besides! Sit back on the veranda and count the cash while they hack it down!

OMGosh! I sw pix of Wisteria climbing all over a building and all I can say is WOW! Id probably be tempted to go in there with some heavy excavating equipment and rip the stuff out. That's got its own side effects tho, not the greatest for the soil etc. It would probably just work as "pruning" and make it grow even more.

Good Luck with this!

Be careful about asumptions, Lamalu! What makes you think i would do such a thing? I moved here a few years back, and had no part in planting an invasive. I take extra care to research every plant i put on this place! It will not be my leavings that will take over the world when i die.

Also, i live in a remote, mountainous spot, where only the hardy will drive back in to. There isn't any commercial value in such vines here. The forests are full of grape vines and invasives introduced way back. No one lacks for any of nature's craft items in this lush wilderness area.

lamalu said:
I'm amazed that you let the wisteria grow for 25 yrs before deciding it was invasive.

Sorry, but what makes me think such a thing is you say you've been gardening for many years, there's nothing in your original post to suggest that you just moved to this location.

I am so thankful for the good advice here. I have a similar problem with a Coral Honeysuckle that I DID plant! Everyone says this plant is not invasive like typical honeysuckles, it is considered a wonderful and valuable plant here in Austin, Texas. Boy, do I beg to differ. It suckers like crazy, and has taken over a huge area of my yard, climbing at least 20 feet into my Live Oaks and choking out everything in its path. On top of that, I now have a wild grapevine that has come up in the same area that has to go!

My neighbor (a fellow organic gardener and master gardener) used the drilling technique and one of those bottles used to seal envelopes to get rid of an invasive tree on her fence line. She cut most of the tree down (it was still small), then filled the bottle with Brush B Gone (which she said you should never spray)and painted it on remaining foliage and onto trunk and drilled holes. It worked well.

Good luck!

This discussion probably belongs in the Integrated Pest Management forum, not here.
-O

Let me second the idea of using a strong (25%) mix of roundup on the offending vines. I have been amazed at the effectiveness of cutting a few stumps spread through the impacted area, scuffing the fresh bark as described above, and applying the roundup. It turns out that many vines in these kinds of horrors are linked below ground as one plant, and that the roundup moves well through the plant system. This stuff has been extraordinarily effective on some horrible vining problems in the Washington DC area. Yes, you may have to so some applications for a few years, but my guess is that you will spend less than an hour a year applying the roundup, as opposed to many hours pruning. In my experience, roundup has been a very valuable addition to our organic growing. I do not believe that it impacts our organic yard in the least for ill, but certainly makes it more pleasurable and productive. If you value your labor at even minimum wage, the roundup is literally worth its weight in gold. With careful application, I have not even seen ill effects on roses only two or three feet from the roundup application. Your alternative may be a dread of the whole situation, and continued frustration. Good luck
Renais

Hi Organica and the List!
I want to thank you all for your input on this situation, but do agree that it's place may be elsewhere in gardenweb, as we come here for organic solutions. We all have choices to make regularly as gardeners with some tough local problems, and to each their own. I have ALWAYS used organic methods, so this decision comes hard with these ethics.
Thank you all again,
Glad

The suggestion to use branches for craft is very good. I have seen wisteria branches used for fences, gates and trellises, even some rustic furniture. Mind you, this is a lot of wisteria.

I have been an organic gardener for 20 years - with the exception of using herbicide for woody invasives.

I have incursions of some of the worst woody invasives in the Northeast US - Oriental Bittersweet, both Common and Glossy Buckthorn, and Norway Maple. I've got vines and stems that are easily three inches diameter, not to mention the $2000 I will be spending this fall to take down 2 large Norway maples (and that is only 2 out of 5 large trees, not to mention the HUNDREDS of smaller ones that I've cleared).

Buckthorn for example, has an unbelievable root system. I have relatively little problem digging out 40-year old Shrub honeysuckles and Burning Bushes. But I only tried to dig out a relatively small Buckthorn once. There are only two choices for dealing with it - heavy machinery, or herbicide (well maybe dynamite or a nuclear bomb, LOL). Take your pick of two evils.

For the past month, I have been doing exactly what Jean001 described - cut the stem or vine near the base, and IMMEDIATELY apply Triclopyr 8% to the stump. I use a squeeze bottle and bow saw. This has been a pain in the ass, btw - crawling around in thickets, getting all scratched up, dirty, hot and sweaty, and on top of that last week I was stung by yellow jackets for my trouble.

Btw, we have been in a drought for over two months, and most of the vegetation is stressed and weakened. My theory is that's an excellent time to cut and poison them -hit them hard while they're down.

Hi Terrene, we had a buckthorn growing along the fence between our place and the neighbors. It had grown into the wire fence making cutting it down to the ground impossibe. We cut it as low as we could, then continued to cut off all of the new shoots growing from the stump. It took two years, but this year it didn't show any new growth.

The local buckthorn eradication group cuts the trees to the ground, then places an empty coffee can or something similar over the stump. Deprived of light, the buckthorn won't regrow.

Althea, I suppose if I kept cutting any regrowth, the Buckthorn would eventually give up. Depriving the Buckthorn of light is an interesting idea. That may work but I'm dealing with a cluster of stumps that is 12-18 inches across. Here is an example of what the stumps look like when I'm done cutting:

{{gwi:146961}}

As you can see, this is much too large to put a coffee can over. Multiply this by at least 50, and that's what you have in my yard. Not to mention hundreds and hundreds of smaller Buckthorns, that I either pull by hand or weed wrench. I am guessing there is quite the seed bank built up in the soil, and that this stuff will be coming up for years.

As an experiment, I am going to cut a section and apply full-strength bleach. I read somewhere that bleach will kill the roots a plant too, and it's certainly safer than using a toxic chemical.

The bleach (a chemical) you plan to use is far, far more toxic than the Roundup you intend to avoid, plus it is much more harmful to soil organisms. It will also do little to control a difficult to control woody plant unless you literally drench it with immense quantities over a period of time. Just because bleach is familiar does not mean it is benign.

Yikes Terrene! My first thought is, could you cover the whole yard with black plastic? Don't know if that is a practical or reasonable suggestion for your circumstances though.

Getting back to ORGANIC, non-chemical possibilities as this is the organic gardening forum:

What about tackling the problem with some heavy machinery? Here in Richmond, I've seen people use a backhoe to remove a shrub and industrial-type mowers for postage-stamp lawns. In your case, the big machinery would be much more justified.

-O

Jayk - thanks for your comments - I was just about to get myself ready to go out and attack some Buckthorn! I won't bother with the bleach then.

Althea - the Buckthorn has colonized itself here and there with zillions of seedlings over a 1/2 acre area. I don't think black plastic is very practical but I think I will try it in a localized area where the stumps are close together. Mowing/burning are other options for control that are more organic.

Organica - organic is vastly preferable, but some of these woody invasives are quite intractable. Heavy machinery is an option for sure, as I mentioned above. I have considered it at length, but it would require access to the area, would tear up the land, would probably stimulate lots of sprouting of the seed bank, and is likely to damage native plants that are intermixed in the area. It would also cost $$$, and I am already planning to spend thousands on tree work (Norway maples - 2 stages with Tree service).

I must weight the minimal and judicious use of a non-organic method against the damage caused by non-native invasives. It's a dilemma for sure.

Hi Terrene,
Just lately, on a high tunnel list, we were talking about solarizing soil with the plastic. Supposedly, clear plastic does a better job of it than the black type.
Alas, i have not had any free time to attack my Wisteria problem, but hope i can get on it somewhat before the autumn foliage drop. There is so much to cut back and "treat" the cut and large vines. Also, i think i hesitate because of my love of organic methods. Really, i see no way it can be accomplished with such and on such a shoestring budget. Heavy machinery is a nightmare to the land, even if we could get it back in here and afford it. I see what devistation and unbalance it caused the land where my ex had it posted to be rid of second growth woods. I cannot believe how many seed of unwanted naturals that effort caused to begin in one area. Big mistake, too.
Glad

I was thinking about another aspect of using heavy machinery or even mowing. Both of these require the burning of fossil fuels, with the emission of greenhouse gases. I can imagine that half a day of running a backhoe would burn a lot of fuel. I've read that lawn mowers are not very efficient and emit a lot of CO2 too.

Now how does that compare to the production of one or two small bottles of herbicide concentrate? On top of that, the only CO2 being emitted when I'm crawling around in the bushes and cutting with a hand saw is what I'm exhaling!

When I apply it, I use a squeeze bottle that squirts a small amount onto the cut stump only. In our dry weather, it sucks in quickly and is very localized. Nonetheless, one day I saw a big fat toad hopping around back there and I was thrilled because I am a wildlife gardener. It pains me to think of any of my little friends possibly making contact with one of these treated stumps and being harmed by it.

PS to Glad. Even if you only find time to cut (and treat with ROundup or BBG if that's the option you go) as many of the woody stumps of the Wisteria as you are able to this fall, you are making some headway. I wouldn't even worry about trying to clear out the Wisteria vines at this point. If it is growing in a place where you don't mind leaving the dead vines in place, they would make wonderful thickets and snags for the birds and wildlife.

I am piling many of the invasives into brush piles, all over the back of the property. The birds and wildlife love these piles, and I'm planning to burn some but also pile some in inconspicuous places for them. However, the large Oriental Bittersweet vines climbing up tall trees are left in place to rot and fall down as they will. Much of the Buckthorn in the middle of thickets is also just staying in place, held up by the support of the vegetation or brush around it.

Yeah they dry up and look dead, but I also leave dead trees for snags and all this is in back so it's not really visible from the street or the neighbors.

Terrene, with 1/2 acre, would goats be an option? They are known to eat the most noxious of weeds. They are also much more fun than heavy machinery or toxic chemicals. :~)

Terrene,
Thanks, i have MANY brush piles and much animal habitat all around the 10 cleared acres, then there is forest all around that. No lack of hidey holes and delightful spots to shelter the darlings here! Critters need places to be away from our diligent dog pack, and i often do not get around to doing the burn piles for a year or so...especially with the drought and the statewide ban on open burning now ( thank goodness for that!). There is so much available land around the house, that dead vines wouldn't matter - no HGTV garden police around here, either! It's lovely even with piles and deadwood - inevitable living in a forest. I hope to get around to it before the big cold snap finally comes. Still, my hot peppers keep coming on magnificently and there are alliums to plant by the hundreds in the next month. I need help!
I appreciate your replies here.
Glad

Goats or sheep might be a really good idea to come in after the mature invasives are cut or removed because seeds will sprout for years. That would be a riot to have a herd in the backyard. Can't imagine what the neighbors would think!

But I've got to deal with the mature plants ASAP as they are just going to keep on making zillions more seeds. I've been clearing invasives from the front and side gardens for 3 years, and been pondering what to do about the real infestation in back for a year or two. It seemed like a particularly good time to do it seeing as how the invasives have been weakened by drought, particularly the Glossy Buckthorn (Frangula alnus) which prefers a more wet habitat and is really stressed. We've had 2 inches of rain in 10 weeks, which is quite unusual for where I live.

Glad, your Wisteria problem sounds terrible, but your property sounds lovely! I agree that the dead trees, and branches and miscellaneous are all part of the beauty of a forest or woodland. I love my snags and plan to grow native vines up them that make berries for the birds.

I know what it's like to deal with a real infestation of an invasive that somebody planted long before you got there. Believe it or not the lady that lived here and the neighbor (who still lives next door) planted stuff like Oriental bittersweet because they liked the berries. I have to admit Wisteria Flowers are gorgeous! But good luck with your battle to get rid of it.

If you spray round up, you'll kill the white and black pines and the other hardwoods. Is that your intent?

Is there a reason a saw will not separate the roots from the plants?

Worrying about the seeds sprouting in the future should not be a consideration.

I like the goats idea. They will eat the vines and keep future sprouts from getting started. If you have roving packs of dogs, feed the dogs to lure them into a trap and have them hauled away. Or if you live out where nobody hauls away dogs, shoot them yourself. Or you could keep supplying them with goats as they leave by attrition.

Have you considered using Acetic Acid 20% ( Horticultural vinegar ) ?

Here's a place the sells it. Not sure if it's for non-commercial use or not but you can email them.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cole - Parmer Chemicals

Here's another place you can buy it :

Here is a link that might be useful: Marshall Grain

Goats: I currently have a poison ivy invasion and asked a local goat farmer about renting a goat from them. They said there are several reasons why they do NOT rent the goats out
1. while the ivy does not bother them, the residue does remain on their mouth fur. (this would not be a problem for things like wisteria, buckthorn, etc)
2. like all methods, the goat would need to crop the offending plants repeatedly over a 1-3 year period.
3. transportation of livestock is a hassle, and they do not allow the animal to reside with others for a period of time b/c of the stress to the animal each time it is relocated.

however if you happen to have livestock or are thinking of keeping one or two just for weed control... it might be a good option. we're considering it ourselves. ... just need a shed for them.

good luck!

Learning, I am thinking of getting a few goats to hold down the dew berries & Bahia grass.
Pigs work too.
I post to ask you have you used the "Poison Ivy Wash"?
It works best before you breakout. As soon as you come in from cutting the ivy/oak & shower.
But I used it when I was starting to itching & break out, it STOPPED the spread.
NOTE: Sorry to anyone who thinks this is spam, to me it is a Health problem & the Wash really works for me.

Round-up is NOT as safe as the company claims (go figure!). It is also made by Monsanto. Monsanto is a criminal company that has done untold damage. I cannot imagine an organic gardener going near the stuff!!! Most of us call Monsanto, Monsatan. NOT a company you ever want to support. Read about it.

Pay someone to dig it out would be my suggestion. I don't think all that poison will kill it anyway! You will however poison everything around it and get poison in the runoff water. Not good. NOT worth it. Don't support Monsanto with you dollars, ever.

bluebirdmama, can you elaborate on "round up is not as safe as the company claims?" Thanks.

There is readily available on the web information that tells a discerning person that none of the glyphosates are something safe to use. A bit of searching is all that is required.