Are they actually causing any harm? Perhaps you can just let them be?

I've heard coffee grounds can deter them, if you are intent upon battle.

Cheers,
Kyle

Ants are more beneficial than harmful and they are a big part of Ma Natures recylcing machine. Ants belong in the garden and yard but not in your house. Organic gardeners/farmers do not unnecessarily kill insects unless they are causing considerable harm, and ants do not do that, except maybe Fire Ants.

Well, I think there are circumstances when they need to be at least moved to a new location. For instance, I have a large hill at the base of a 2 year old pear tree, and I'm very concerned that they will kill the tree. I've been dumping water on the hill every day for 2 weeks, hoping they'll move to a drier location, but they've been persistant in staying so far.

And while coffee grounds may deter them, they don't seem to cause them to leave - I partially mulch my tree with UGGs...

And while we're on the topic of ants, does anyone know what you put down across a door threshold to keep them out of your house? I read it somewhere last year, and my memory isn't what it used to be, and of course now I need it...

Cheers,

Tim

I have used freshly ground cinnamon with fire ants in south Florida. Sprinkle this around their hole. They won't come out for a long time, usually until the rain washes it thoroughly away. It doesn't mean they are not there. It means they are coming out of a different hole, usually located in a less inconvenient place.

The other thing that I found was good against fire ants was a thick cardboard mulch covered heavily with some very aromatic wood mulch, like cedar. They don't ever seem to come up through that.

In the house I have used cinnamon and mint. They don't like either.

I have had decent luck with molasses, both liquid and solid feed molasses. I have read several authors mention it saying it helps with fire ants (presumably feeding a soil fungus the ants don't like) and I can attest that at the very least, I used to have fire ants, LOTS, I spread and sprayed with molasses over the last two years, and I no longer have near the problem I had with them. Maybe just a small colony springing up from under rocks now and then, but nothing like I started out with two years ago; they were pretty ubiquitous, and LOVED the compost pile. As always, YMMV.

To keep them from the doors I have seen diatomaceous earth work and fail. Sometimes the ants will just study the powder and not cross it at all, other times they zoom right over it. Give it a shot and see, can't hurt.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gardening in Converse (my blog)

I know lots of folks don't view ants as a pest, and since I am new to organic gardening, I apprieciate all your thoughts so far! I apologize to Kimmsr if I offended you and your views on "a organic gardener". So if ants are building their mounds right at the base of your seedlings, they pose no harm??

I also use cinnamon (purchased already ground) to block ants from coming in the house. It works for me.

It's up to you to decide when and where ants become a real problem in your home and/or gardens. They absolutely can cause problems for seedlings and vegetables, and ants are not welcome in my home.

DE (diatomaceous earth) has been really successful for me. i noticed many ant friends walking around my kitchen, i sprinkled DE along the back of my counters and the door threshold, and i haven't seen one since then.
outside, DE would probably wash away after a rain, but as an organic deterrent, it's worth checkin' out. (i got mine from a natural pet care website, to de-flea my cats. that worked really well, too.)

So if ants are building their mounds right at the base of your seedlings, they pose no harm??

Depends on the ant. Most of the time no. I have a raised veggie bed with a largish ant hill in it and this is where I plant peppers. They don't harm the plant at all and the pepper I have growing in the ant mound does just as well as the rest.

This is one of those things where your mileage may vary and you have to make the call.

Personally I don't get ants in the house (at least not the current one, I have in the past) and the ants don't seem to bother my plants so I let them be.

I am not so much an organic gardener as a gardener that doesn't like to kill anything that doesn't need to be killed and who wants to garden in a manner that both works and is ecologically friendly. As such I don't kill ants in the garden as they simply do not need to be killed.

Again, your mileage may vary.

You need not worry about offending me because I recognize this is a discussion group where numerous people can come in and offer their opinion, as wrong as it might be.
However, people that practice organic gardening/farming need to know what is ecological and what the various insects actually do and that the vast majority of insects are either benign or beneficial and there is no good reason to kill any insect just because it is there.

I've never viewed ants as pests. (We don't have fire ants where I live though.)

If you lived where fire ants are a problem you would understand why some of us want to erase them from the face of the earth! Well not really, just back to where they came from! When I was gardening a few years ago I couldn't grow okra because of those ants. They also invaded my compost so it was un-usable. I'm gardening again this year so will see what happens, but it will be warfare over the okra, I want some this year!

1>So if ants are building their mounds right at the base
1>of your seedlings, they pose no harm??

2>Depends on the ant. Most of the time no. I have a raised
2>veggie bed with a largish ant hill in it and this is where
2>I plant peppers. They don't harm the plant at all and the
2>pepper I have growing in the ant mound does just as well
2>as the rest.

That is amazing to me. My experience with ants eating plants started at an early age. I thought, gee, nothing growing here, I will plant some peas. Of course it was an ant hill (sleeping during the pea planting season evidently.) Once the peas started growing, they devoured the plants entirely. Those of you who don't see ants as a pest in need of killing must not have as many ant hills in their yard as I do. We had one that was at least 10 feet by 4 feet. That is a lot of space to abdicate to ants. And of course there are maybe 97 other ant hills in other spots.

Personally I don't feel the need to let ants rule that much of my yard. Anytime they are trying to live en masse in a garden bed, they are going to get soaked with water, have their nest disturbed, and probably have soapy water sprayed on them if they won't move. They have always eaten the plants or the plant roots near them. I can't imagine what kind of ants you would have that WOULDN'T kill the plants they are by. For proof I point out the completely plantless nature of ant hills.

Marcia

I wonder if the dislike for ants increases the farther south you go.

Odorous ants will create 25 queens whenever their territory is invaded. That is why Orkin and others suggest using baits rather than poisons.

I hate hate hate ants. If they are in the yard in masse, then they make their way into my house, and they invade my roses. When you see a huge amount of ants at the base of the rose, then they are often inside the rose. If they do not kill the canes, then they find a dead cane, invade it, and continue to eat their way through the rose and through the good pulp.

I am looking for another bait, but it is hard to find the exact chemical that you want when you would rather not use any.

Sammy

If you use DE, don't sprinkle it on your plants or on top of the soil. It will kill the beneficial insects in your soil and on your leaves.

I have sandy soil which seems to put out a welcome sign for ant activity. My habenaro peps began to look sickly last yr and upon closer inspection they were loaded with ants. I brewed a pot of coffee and sprayed. To my amazement it seemed to do the trick.

My main issue with ants is as a vector for other pests. I absolutely do whatever it takes to keep them out of my citrus trees, usually just a good Tanglefoot barrier, but their symbiotic relationship with aphids is hugely problematic on my trumpet vines, guara and lavateras. I've never found an inorganic or organic method that eliminates the ants, so I focus on the aphids with insecticidal soap and hand squishing.

Living on the coast I always had a big problem with the imported(asian I think) fire ants. Now that I live in a area of clay soil they are not near as bad. I do think we should be careful to identify the particular species at hand. Many ants are beneficial and they often have there own particular pros/cons depending on the species. What you do is up to you but I like to try and encourage people to learn about what they are doing regardless of there decision. Texas A&M (I think it was, been many years) has a lot of info on the imported fire ants if that is your problem.

My experience with ants is limited but:
We have citrus tree's and have always had ants running up and down the trees, despite my efforts to stop them. This was especially prevalent on the dwarf lemon tree (in container). Last the lemon tree just didn't seem happy, very few leaves, no fruit last year and just plain struggling. This week I had to lift the root ball as the tree had sunk (its been in there 3 years), and I noticed that for the first time in AGES it looked really healthy. Lifted the tree up and there was an ants nest (brown ants) under it. with the ants busily working. Lots of worms too. So in this instance they were doing a great job of making the tree look better, there is blossom on the tree so I guess we'll see if it actually sets fruit this year.

Take some time, look at what the ants are actually doing and see if they are really a pest of just inconveniently located.