Oh, Pidge, I just read about the race on another forum and told Don and he referred me to your post. I don't usually watch horse races and I don't bet, but I saw Barbaro's last race and I fell in love with that beautiful creature and his trainer. I feel just terrible about what happened and I can't stop crying. I hope that they can save his life! Missy

This is terrible. We had to be out and about, so we missed the actual race; I couldn't believe it when I checked the news as soon as we returned. Barbaro looked like a great champion, both beautiful and running with that great stride when he won the Derby. Things do not look so good for him. A horse must be able to stand up; it cannot lie down for a long length of time. With a double break that will be difficult.

I too remember Ruffian and her tragic match race. The whole country was caught up in Ruffian-mania, tee shirts, banners, etc. Everyone wanted this wonderful filly to fulfill her racing potential. The racing world gave her the special honor of burying her in the infield at Belmont Park.

After her death there was intense discussion for awhile as to the ethics of how race horses are bred. Their very thin legs must support bodies with ultra-large chest cavities that will contain great lung expansion when running. Some said that Ruffian was a perfect example of a horse whose body was too large for her legs. I don't know if that was true or not, but it's an interesting question.

Here's hoping that Barbaro will survive and have a good life in a green pasture, with many girlfriends.

Secretariat remains the greatest!

I always watch the races and couldn't believe what I was seeing when when he broke through the gate and started racing all by himself. As soon as he did that the announcer said that will probably mean problems for him. It was so sad watching this.

I just found this story about Barbaro...he is in surgery now. They say that he is getting the very best medical help available anywhere. I am keeping my thoughts positive for his complete healing. Missy
Barbaro is in surgery

I'm afraid it's not the medical help that's the problems - it's the aftercare. Unlike people, who would keep weight off their leg, this poor guy isn't going to be able to do that.
But, I too am keeping positive thoughts for Barbaro.

Me too, but have you ever seen the bone structure of a horse's leg? They're going to have to have that poor horse in some kind of body sling to keep him off that leg, and even then, there's no guarantee that it just won't snap again. It's very sad.

I just heard that my oldest granddaughter was at the Preakness with her boyfriend and the accident happened right in front of her. I haven't had a chance to talk to her yet, but her dad tells me she is very upset by what she saw.
I don't know if they can save the horse--a major reason that he wasn't put down on the spot was economic. He's worth a lot at stud, up to $500,000 per service.
How whether they can keep him immobile, at least immobilize the leg, is not assured. How do you keep a 1,000 lb. animal quiet enough to heal? I am really not very optimistic.

One problem in Barbaro's value as a stallion is that if his injury is determined to be the result of a genetic weakness, his stud value will be almost nil. I have no idea how they go about proving this.

One of his vets said today that this was just about the worse series of fractures that he'd ever seen. He said that horses with this injury were usually put down immediately on the track.

Fingers are crossed in this house for his survival -

After most of the day in surgery, I am so happy that he is out now! His surgeon said "he is extremely comfortable in the leg." I hope that he will heal well and live out his days in a lovely pasture. Missy

Because he is a "local" horse from the Philly area, the itnerest here in Philly is at least as high as anywhere else. The Inky had this news this morning.

When I was in grad school at UPenn, we sometimes used to have our end of year picnic at the New Bolton Center. It's a beautiful place and not far from where he lives normally--so let's hope being so close to his own space is conducive to healing. His owners are closely tied to New Bolton and I'm sure that his care is the best.

I also wondered about his worth at stud if the leg problem is the result of genetics. But how could they know that? Is the testing able to locate such a genetic particular? I wonder if they have to prove this empirically with how well his offspring would do? It's a mystery to me.

Here is a link that might be useful: Barbaro

A friend who works at a vet clinic told me that injured horses are suspended, via sling mechanisms, in pools so that they can exercise without putting weight on their legs.

The bloodlines of a horse like this will be well known and for a long way back. Ordinarily, if there was a genetic disposition to broken bones it would be known and that animal would not be bred. However, some breeders don't have scruples and will breed only for money without thought about breeding only to healthy bloodlines.

I think these noble beasts take beating to those thin, purebred legs in a racing career - they are often racing as two year olds. I think there's some controversy about the whole racing thing on those grounds.

You're right - they're racing alot of horses as two-year olds and some of them are actually only 18 months. That's too young for a horse and can lead to what we saw on Sunday. Think of a child whose bones and tendons are not yet completely formed and matured.

It sure was horrible to watch. My friend who has owned and bred horses for many years says that his stud value will be zero unless he can rear up on the back legs.

Okay, i've been having dreams about horses since this happened.
Up until now it has been about horses being injured.
Now thanks to the discussion about the breeding aspect
of it, I can now look forward to (guess what).LOL
Thanks Suzanne. :0(

Nowadays a stud horse doesn't need to be able to rear up on his back legs. Artificial insemination is the name of the game. If Barbero survives his semen will be collected and shipped. Not very romantic :)

Sheila Thoroughbreds are bred by live cover, not artificial insemination. Hopefully he will recover and be sound enough for breeding, or maybe he can retire to the Kentucky Horse Park.

I found this a few minutes ago and I loved watching it. Click on the link and then on the left you can click to launch the video. Missy

Video with Michael Matz Barbaro's Trainer

So sorry, I should have written, click where it says Launch, on the upper, right hand side.

nickey's,how interesting. I'mm afraid I made an assumption since so much breeding in all kinds of prized animals goes on without benefit of courtship :)

Thoroughbred breeding seems really odd to me (brought up in an agricultural state).

The horses *have* to actually do the deed.

But it's anything but natural.

One of the mare's hind legs is tied so she can't kick her valuable partner.

Then a "teaser" stallion is brought in.

Poor guy, what a job:
he has to get the mare all excited, & then...
they lead him away.

Then the stallion is led in &, uh, helped into position.
Then it's all over.

Maybe this terrible accident will bring about a more modern way of getting new little thoroughbreds.

Sylvia that's how horses are bred, even if artificial insemination is used. When I was in college I worked at a Quarter Horse breeding farm and we used live cover and artificial insemination. You basically go through the same procedure. To collect the stallion a receptive mare has to be used. The mares have to be teased to be sure they are receptive. If the mares are not hobbled they could seriously injure the stallion or handlers. Live cover or artificial insemination doesn't matter, every precaution has to be used for everyone involved to be safe.

I married into a race horse family. I was also quite surprised to find out that Thoroughbred are bred by live cover.

He would still probably have to rear back to lift himself up for the artifical collection. Standard breds are used for harness racing, etc. It's a tricky business.

We were watching when Ruffian broke her leg. It was awful to watch. It just sort of flopped about. I know we couldn't really have heard it snap, but it seemed as if we did. I could have cried. She was such a magnificent animal. I think she would have been one of the greatest had she lived.
PB

Barbaro seemed pretty agitated in his stall before the race
and Mike Matz has to step lively to keep from getting
clobbered by him. Wonder what got him in such a stew?

When this happened, I remembered watching all the pre-race hype with interviews with Matz and they mentioned that Barbaro bucked and jumped around when they put the saddle on him prior to two other races. Wonder if he knew something they didn't?

I always wondered why they didn't use AI for horse breeding like they do for cattle breeding.

They do. Many fine competition horses are conceived through AI....but not thoroughbreds. It's simply a rule set up by the industry. I do not know why. It seems to me that if live cover is insisted upon, then the stallion would have considerably less potential for siring many descendents. That would be tantamount in the selective nature and high price of such a breeding.

If Barbaro's injury isn't a case for the JC to allow AI, I don't know what is. I stand a TB stallion in BC, Canada and have lost business to interested clients who could not afford to ship mares from as far away as Florida. What gives the JC the right to deny AI, when all foals are DNA'd anyway? Comments anyone? Cheers!

Here is a link that might be useful: www.ahshling-stables.com

You just registered today,obviously to advertise your stables. Sorry,that's a no no at IVillage.

All I really got out of Ashling's post was that it seemed to be written in code ~ JC, AI, TB, BC, DNA... Whole words seem to be rarely used these days.

I have had horses, but they were just "family" animals and not of show quality. I suspect that initially the sanctions against artificial insemination in thoroughbreds was an attempt to keep the number of animals bred off a champion at a minimum and therefore keep the value of their genetic contribution monetarily high. I see this regulation as being antiquated and my guess is that eventually it will change.

BTW, does anyone know now Barbaro's status?

suzy, I knew the NYTimes had posted an update a couple of weeks ago, and they had a link to the Veterinary Hospital at Penn State, which is caring for the horse: most recent update November 6th: cast removed

Here is a link that might be useful: Penn State Veterinary: Barbaro updates

Thank you very much Sara. I keep thinking of him and then when I sit down to the puter forget to have a look at his status. It's looking promising, or at least more optimistic than it might have looked. As for animal breeding, I have mixed feelings on how tightly some species are being bred. Many dogs have some terrible problems now because they've been bred so tightly for certain traits. Our schnauzer is one of those dogs whom only a mother, or father could love. He's picture perfect and healthy, but is wound like a clockspring. I researched his pedigree and he's his own grandpa, more or less. No way would I pass his genes on, no matter how cute he is.

Barbaro's legs are astounding, but bones in racing horses legs are so slender, there just has to reach a point where they fail under extraordinary impact.