I know what you mean, that stuff drives me nuts too! I've seen listings that claim the plant is a 'species' then it will have a hybrid name in the description. Sometimes when I am in just the right gadfly mood I will call them on it too.
Also see listings that describe a plant as 'sure to be awarded' now and then. If you've ever sat in on a judging session, you know there's no certainty of any such thing! Besides you must wonder, if their plant is so great, the seller would surely keep it!

I love Ebay. Its an endlessly fascinating world of free enterprise where virtually anything imaginable can be bought or sold. ItÂs a great place to find things that are not otherwise readily available or that are not otherwise available at all.

As an orchid marketplace, I rate Ebay highly in this regard. In doing regular searches for orchids of specific interest, I have found excellent opportunities to acquire exactly the hard-to-find species or cultivars I was looking for. ThatÂs the pro of Ebay orchid shopping, especially when sellers know precisely what they are selling and prepare honest, accurate listings.

The con of Ebay orchids is what you have pointed out - the inaccurate listings. Some of them are not intentionally inaccurate and some might not be, but many are misleading or misrepresentative by design, and not only in their wording. Flower photographs that donÂt directly represent the items being sold are also a problem.

Sometimes, there are subtle misrepresentations such as "the picture shows what the flowers will look like." Whether thatÂs ethical or not is debatable. It might have an innocent motive, but it also has the power of suggestion. Pictures used for this purpose generally show flowers of select quality. Sometimes, there is flat-out dishonesty. A listing, for example, for a tiny seedling represented by a picture of a fine flower and the statement "the flower shown is from the first sibling to bloom." If this were a blooming size seedling, okay, but if the plant for sale is years away from its first flower, how did a sibling bloom already? A seller might answer this question by saying the sibling is from an earlier cross of the same parents, but I wouldnÂt believe that either, because he has already attempted to deceive.

Sometimes, a flower picture has no reference at all. The seller doesnÂt say itÂs the flower of the plant being sold, nor does he say it isnÂt. That almost certainly means it isnÂt. Unless he just forgot to include that info, his intent is to make the buyer assume that what he sees is what heÂs buying. In the case of one such listing, I contacted the seller and asked if the C. walkeriana flower in the picture was from the same division he was selling. He assured me it was, but I already knew it wasnÂt. I had recognized that picture from elsewhere on the internet.

You can buy with confidence from some Ebay orchid sellers, but generally, listings should be scrutinized before you decide to bid or "Buy it now." If the listing does not specify that a hybrid being sold is a clone, suspect that it isnÂt. If the listing is for an unbloomed seedling or a previously-bloomed seedling without the actual flower picture, realize up front that the characteristics and quality of the flowers will be uncertain.

On the other side of the fence, the buyers are mad. I've only sold two orchids on ebay. "Cattleya" hybrids that were in flower, with picture, but with the provision that the flowers would be dead by the time the plants were shipped.

Put a low $ limit on both. and the final bid prices were silly, so much so that i had to include extra plants with the shipment.

There must be some bargains on ebay, but then sometimes you get the auction thing with multiple bidders and the result is silly prices as mentioned above.

As for setting yourself up as an ebay policeman that is fine and might be needed in the instances mentioned in posts above??? but the buyer should be wary thing applies to everything on ebay and perhaps more emphasis should be placed on seller ratings.

>Put a low $ limit on both. and the final bid prices were
>silly, so much so that i had to include extra plants with
>the shipment.

I sell a little bit on eBay as a means to clear 'extras' out my shadehouse. I also set prices much lower than commercial/sales table value so they go and I've had similar experiences where plants have gone for a too much and I've had to throw in extras to ease my conscience :-). On the other hand I've sold uncommon plants that haven't gone for as much as I'd expect. It's a very weird and fickle market.

The Australian eBay orchid trade might be a little different from the US because we are essentially a closed market but I rarely if ever see orchids go for an amount I'd consider a bargain (especially when postage is included). Our commercial eBay vendors also tend to put the starting bids at catalogue prices so unless they're offering something not on their catalogue I can't see much point in bidding on an item when I know I can order it from their catalogue for less than the end bid.

Ebay is a weird and wonderful place, where you can find most anything you can think of... as Anglo said, "an endlessly fascinating world of free enterprise where virtually anything imaginable can be bought or sold." Key words = free enterprise! Take it all with a huge helping of common sense and a big grain of salt... do your research ahead of time so you know what you're looking for, and at, and you won't be disappointed!

I check several headings most every morning to see what's new... you just never know when that perfect orchid will be listed for sale, or that jewelry item you've been wanting will appear! I've made many fabulous buys over the years, and I have yet to be disappointed. I watch an item that I might be interested in, think about it a bit... then bid, and I never go over what I think is a reasonable price. I pay in a timely fashion and give feedback upon receiving my purchase. I check out the seller if I'm interested in their items, taking into consideration the reason for any poor feedback or low score.

When I sell an item, I post the best photos I can take and describe in detail, to the best of my ability, the item I'm selling. I try to start items at a low price, answer all questions as soon as I can, and ship items out in a timely manner. I've been very pleased with my sales.

I think if a bidding war ensues and you don't know when to say when, that's your own fault. You should already know what the item is worth and how much you're willing to spend! People who don't check things out prior to bidding are asking to be ripped off... again, it's their own fault! You wouldn't just buy an item in a store without looking at the package or comparing prices and brands... so why should Ebay be any different?

I seldom take a seller to task for a listing that might be misleading; I'm not the internet police... but I have complimented sellers for above average listings. I have my favorites, but I'm also an equal opportunity bidder!

I think Ebay is like any other shopping experience, albeit more convenient... you get out of it what you put into it. If you do your homework before committing, you'll end up a satisfied customer.

The old adage, caveat emptor applies to anything you buy anywhere, but especially on Ebay. Like jodik said, do your homework. Don't trust sellers who don't show a picture of the actual plant. Look at the plant closely (if you can) and see if the plant looks healthy. Ask questions about the plant if something seems vague. Some sellers post pictures of "what the orchid will look like". Take that with a grain of salt. I don't buy unbloomed seedlings anyway. I'm an avid collector of Gustav Stickley furniture. But I only buy from vetted auction houses. For expensive items, you have to have the item vetted. Ebay is a hodge-podge of either very good stuff or just plain crap. But when I see a piece of Stickley on Ebay and it's mis-represented, I call them on it. I do my own vetting. I am willing to be an Ebay "Police". It only takes me a few minutes of my time to write the seller and discuss their "problem". I notice a lot of Stickley pieces described as "early" and "rare". With the label or without, I know my stuff (I sometimes consult on arts and crafts furniture) and I can immediately tell if someone is wrong. Sometimes it's ignorance. Sometimes it's false advertising. Same goes for cattleyas. I've been growing orchids for 40 years. I started out as a teen. From the get-go, I started collecting only stud grade plants, mostly historical cattleyas. Way back when, these plants were relatively inexpensive because many growers were tossing these plants out in favor of new hybrids. Now they are valuable. I digress. Anyway, when I see a blatant mis-representation of a cattleya, I'm angry. I write to the seller to protect his reputation and to protect the buyer. Some of them are really nice about it. In many cases, the seller re-listed the plant correctly. Or took it off the market. Same goes for some Stickley sellers. But I sometimes get angry emails back. Some a-hole threatens me that he or she will report me to Ebay for harassment. Bunk. There is no clause that states that I can't contact a seller to ask them a question or give them advice. These angry morons are bunko artists. I don't call them that. But they get belligerent. So sue me. They don't have any legal basis at all. So all you sellers out there who are trying to pull a fast one, beware. I'm watching you. Many of you may say, who cares? I do. I've been fooled by some sellers. Never again. I gave them a negative feedback and demanded my money back. Some of them were complete jerks, some did give me my money back. Some threaten to give me a negative feedback. I'm not afraid of them. I have a clean slate and a 100% feedback. So really, don't buy from anyone who has less than 100% positive feedback. 99% maybe. There is always a buyer who is a jerk. But do check out a seller's complaints. They usually have some lame excuse and promise to rectify the situation. Many times they don't and you will see another complaint by the buyer. Avoid these sellers. The also vindictively try to post a negative feedback for the buyer. These sellers have a lot of nerve. But they don't understand that the more negative feedback they get, the less business they will get. Idiots. As in all business, you have to be honest. If you sell junk, and treat the customer like dirt, eventually you will go under. I've been satisfied with my purchases off of Ebay. Including even some Stickley pieces. But it takes a bit of knowledge and homework. Again, I don't want to come off as some sort of crusader or even a pompous ass, I am willing to put my neck out and tell everyone from seller to buyer that honesty is the best policy. So don't send me threatening letters as some moron promised to do. A crook is a crook. And if it is a simple, honest mistake, take it like an adult and own up to it.

I have bought a few plants off Ebay, and I'm incredibly picky about my plants, am comfortable in my knowledge of prices, plant quality and plant availability . I had a run in with someone who sent some big Catt species with all dead/rotted roots. I promptly took pictures of all material and contacted seller, gave him a chance to correct the problem and he sent me different plants with rotted roots. At this point I documented all plants from various angles and packed and shipped it all back along with a demand for full payment refund including shipping costs. He ignored me for a few days and then I had to lean into him a bit. I basically told that if I didn't get my full refund I would post his name and pictures of the C**P he sold on ebay on ALL orchid forums and thusly affecting the bulk of his clientele. I immediately received full payment, and that was the end of it.

Ebay has a place where you can dispute problems with sellers... and if you protect yourself with insurance and go into the experience with a good attitude, there's really no problem, other than the hassle created by a dispute and refund.

Knock on wood, but I've never had a problem that couldn't be solved with an email... most sellers are honest with good intentions, and are more than happy to see that you remain a pleased customer.

I don't know that I'd buy expensive antique furniture from Ebay, sight unseen as it were, but I do dabble in vintage jewelry, and I've gotten some terrific pieces to add to my collection. My husband buys lots of electronic parts and equipment, and he's constantly doing business on Ebay... with good results, I must say.

The bottom line is... use your head, and have a decent attitude... it's quite simple!

{{gwi:154903}}One of the things that happens to me is that my pictures get used on eBay. It is going on right now for item 190216409101. If you see the fence in the background, that is still my picture, although I asked him to remove it. Besides being dishonest, I plan to use that picture myself soon, and I don't want people thinking I am using HIS picture.

I know that is a danger of having good pictures up on the web. For most uses, I don't get too upset if I am credited as photographer. But to sell a plant, it is nice if the flower picture is from that plant.

The only silver lining is that I am reminded that I had planned to sell a couple of these this year and now that new growth has started it is time to list them. I'll put them up next Saturday at $20.

richardol, this discussion of Ebay sellers using unauthorized photos is a problem. And the buyers out there are oblivious. There is even amount of mis-representation, because there is no telling if the flower pictured is the flower from the actual plant for bid. I suggested once that when someone posts a picture on the web, you "watermark" it. Stock photography internet sites like Getty Photo or Corbis watermark their photos, making it hard for people to use the shot without buying it. However, those with a good hand at Photoshop can take the mark out. When buying a select plant off of Ebay, the buyer should be educated on what the actual flower looks like. I've seen select plants with a picture illustrating the plant to be wrong. Sometimes the seller will describe the flower as "for example only". Okay, but sometimes this breeds suspicion. I do get peeved when a seller is selling a unbloomed seedling and shows an awarded flower "as type." I call this misrepresentation.
But I guess they get around this legally when they say the illustration is just an example. But it's kind of a bait and switch tactic. As for the woman who would be suspicious of buying high ticket items off of Ebay like a Stickley piece, the same scrutiny must be applied to less expensive items. For me, I know exactly just by looking at photos supplied whether a piece of Gustav Stickley is either 1901, or 1904 or 1916. Or if it is an actual antique Stickley piece altogether (or a modern reproduction) It's just a matter of education and years of experience. The same can be applied to buying orchids. I don't bid on anything that I don't have familiarity with.

I got a reply with a "sorry" and the picture has been replaced. now.

I'm with Toyo all the way. Here's a current e-Bay listing (Item #110248244057) that uses somebody else's {{gwi:154901}}.

I easily fall for C. Trianae varities that I don't have but this auction tells me the following scenarios:
1) The actual plant might be a Trianae but not the 'President' clone although the coloration might be similar (Tipo). The real deal usually demands a high value.
2) The actual plant might not be Trianae at all but the bloom may look similar --- then why not use a popular clone to drive sales ;)
3) The actual plant is really the 'President' but being a fancy eBay page, someone creating the auction item conveniently scours the web for pictures without considering issues of intellectual property/copyright.
4) Lastly, the auction page indicates that there is NO RETURNS NOR REFUNDS after payment is made :(

I bought some plants from eBay and got burned once (so far and I have one more to bloom)regarding misrepresented plants. I thought I got myself a C. Leuddemanniana cross but when I bloomed the plant after a year it was a C. Mossiae! After this experience, I became wary of how much trouble a buyer can go through in eBay if the seller has no regard for authenticity and copyright. Usually, the seller has a great likelihood of being able to get away with it (plant misrepresentation) because of the chances that the buyer will be unable to bloom the plant and would likely kill it after some time. On the other hand, it's hard to prove if it's intentional or not in behalf of the seller because he/she might just be extremely poor in housekeeping thereby causing unintentional mislabelling of their stocks.

By the way, the seller of the mentioned auction has 100% feedback. I hope I'm wrong but anybody who knows this seller that can vouch for his/her credibility then please let me know. Who knows, I might bid someday but still, it's wrong to use somebody else's picture without any permission.

Okay, anybody out there feel like informing the seller about this ?

Oh, boy... worst yet, the same seller is selling a C. Trimos (Item# 110248535030) and is using the {{gwi:154902}} last year.

No doubt that is the same picture. Was there any response from the seller?

I ignore sellers who cannot spell a species name correctly and uses capital letters for the name.

Brooke

Knick-knack, awhile back on this forum, someone said that the eBay feedback system is skewed toward positive results for the seller. I don't remember the person's name, but they were knowledgeable. Whitecat8

The problem with ebay is that the minute you give someone a negative, they give you one right back (even if you were a good customer with a problem). Sellers with thousands of reviews are much less hurt by 1 negative that someone with say 20 reviews like me. Makes me less likely to give them a negative (fortunately I have not had to), and I imagine that's the case with many other people.
~Jem

I agree with Jem. I'm not an Ebay seller - I'm a buyer. However, I maybe have 10 reviews and there were a couple of purchases that I would have given a negative but I was afraid of getting a neg back. There are sellers who won't sell to newbies on Ebay. They want a min number of reviews before you can bid for something. My first Ebay purchase was 4 years ago and the guy sent it to my billing address instead of my shipping address. He didn't respond to something like 3 emails about where's my stuff. I didn't get his attention until I gave him a neg review. However, I got one back with the suggestion that sellers don't sell to me because I don't know what I'm doing. It took forever for me to figure out how to respond to his negative review on my review page and it was way more trouble than it was worth. Which is why it was another 2 years before I went back for a second purchase. The way it's set up I don't take a whole lot of stock in a sellers reviews which is why I'm very cautious about shopping for anything on Ebay.

And here, we've had wonderful success buying and selling on Ebay! Oh, sure... there have been a few glitches over the years, but nothing that couldn't be solved to mutual satisfaction.

We have found it best to leave positive feedback with a neutral comment or neutral feedback if there's something we're not pleased with. This way, we keep our 100% positive rating.

I suppose it helps to be a bit computer savvy when using a place like Ebay, but honestly, there are help files no matter what you're trying to do or learn on a computer. I find Ebay to be quite easy to navigate, and most everything is fairly self-explanatory.

Ebay can be a great place to find those things you want, but don't want to pay full price for, or a great place to find things you can't buy locally... there are lots of reasons a person might shop Ebay... I just received a designer handbag that would have cost me more than I could afford at a store... I paid just over $20 plus reasonable shipping! I call that a good reason to shop Ebay!

It's like anything else, though... you need to know what you're looking at and what it's worth... research helps!

Update:
I sent the e-Bay seller a short note not to use my picture anymore but it seems that they have the audacity to totally ignore it :( It makes me wonder now that they intently set their auction only for a short span of time hoping to get away with it. The funny thing is that for the past items they sold (basing from their feedback), they are so quick to delete the pictures from their Photobucket account!

The following are the things I observed from suspicious eBay sellers:
1) They usually use/steal pictures mostly from non-US websites
2) Auction item or item for sale is set for a short span of time
3) Item description is usually misleading; similar to the verbage use in lottery junk mails, e.g., picture shown is the plant being auctioned --- might be true for the entire plant but the bloom picture may not be from the plant itself.

As for the later comments, I agree that the eBay online facilities is skewed favoring the seller. They have to because they also want a piece of the action for any successful purchase. Being educated enough to make a decision when to buy an item is not always fool-proof because I read news articles that expert scam artists can trick anyone by the things they sell online, e.g.,fake 'rare' stamps, collectible items, etc. I wonder if there's an independent website out there that tracks online sellers where buyers can vent out their frustrations and negative experiences...

Ebay is skewed toward the seller. Any negative feedback, they give you one in return. And it's always some lame excuse or just vitriolic revenge. I personally don't care if I get negative feedback as buyer. But for a seller, a negative feedback can affect their reputation to sell in the future. Of course, there are always the finicky buyer who will complain about the box the the plant arrived in or that there were too many packing peanuts. I'm being frivolous now, but you know what I mean. On the other hand, if you do get bad service, or a bad plant, you should give a negative feedback. Some sellers will try to retaliate and even ban you from bidding. I've been locked out by some morons. But that's just one custumer they are losing. And if they keep up their bad business practices, and tick off customers, they will fail. That's the nature of business. And they don't seem to understand business 101. The picture stealing thing is a problem. Some sellers have difficulty finding a picture of the plant for sale and scour the net for one to "borrow." The legality of this is always tough. Just Google Images and you will somtimes find picture you are looking for and viola, you can post it as an illustration of what you (the seller) is selling. But as savy buyer, you will notice that you've seen these pictures time and time before. As I've said before, if any of you post a picture in a photo bucket or on your own website, that you water mark it in some way. Like Corbis, Getty or other stock photo places do. And do it in a way that makes it hard for the "borrower" to photoshop out the mark. I know this screws up your photo, but what else can you do? Buying from Ebay is a gamble anyway, especially with unbloomed plants. There is no written guarantee that the plant you are buying is labeled correctly. You are buying on good faith. I've bough plants on Ebay where I've paid a good sum for. They were unbloomed plants, but small. It has taken me a few years to get the plant to bloom and they were completely mislabeled. Now the very Ebay seller that I bought the plant is long gone. Out of business in one case, I guess. They don't return my direct emails or even phone calls. So I just chalk that plant up as "live and learn." Now I restrict my Ebay purchases to sellers that I know (for unbloomed plants). And if it is a blooming plant and the there is an actual picture of the plant in bloom, I'll put a bid on it. Like anywhere in this free market system, there are good guys and bad. It's hard to put yourself into the mind of a crook. The moral issue and all. But the world is filled with sociopaths. One last thing, Ebay has become expensive. For some things, it's a cheap and fast way of buying affordable things, but in other instances there are some plants that are going for ridicuolous prices. I saw a mature mericlone of Blc. Oconee 'Mendenhall' go for an outrageous final price. Oconee isn't rare. You can find clones of it nearly anywhere. Now try to find an original division of it. You won't. But if you did, then there's something to bid on. But same old question can be asked, "How do you know it's an original division?" You don't. Unless you know the grower personally. And that's hard on Ebay.

That mislabeling thing goes hand-in-hand with a special disadvantage of the feedback system as it relates to orchids. Let's say you are happy with a transaction based on the health of the plant and the delivery time, etc. So you leave positive feedback. A year later, the orchid blooms and you see it is something other than what you thought. Too late then.

There is at least one Ebay seller I am aware of who has listed named Cattleya species cultivars that were actually just seedlings. Not divisions of named cultivars, not even mericlones. And the guy's hand-written tag was as bogus as his listing. At best, the cultivar listed was one of the parents. Suckered me for a fast buck and got good feedback, too.

On the positive side, there is the occasional good Ebay seller who has received negative feedbacks for whatever reason, but has not left negatives in return. I admire that.

Even more, I admire those few Ebay sellers with integrity enough to leave a positive feedback as soon as the payment is received. That's what they should all do because that is the point at which the buyer has done his/her part. It used to be common in the early Ebay days, but has become rare. Not rare as in "rare" orchid, but truly rare.