Greengrass organically grows peppers in containers, maybe she will chime in. Here is something she posted in another thread:

"I bought a potting mix that had been used one yr by a nursery grower. What I didn't know at the time was that it had 40% vermiculite in it that would impede drainage. The other ing were mainly peat moss with some bark ash.

Here's what I did in yr 3 to improve drainage in 18 gal container. I added 6 qts coarse perlite and 2 qts compost (cow manure and a little worm poo)to give the nitrogen a kick. Great results last season. I will add a little more perlite this season and a cup of worm poo. I raise worms so cost is minimal.

I started some 5 gal pails form scratch last yr. This is the mix I will use from now on
to start new projects provided that this yr works well.
50% peat moss (buy lots of peat moss real cheap at walmart end of season)
20 % compost
30% perlite

Hoping this simple mix stays in good shape for second season. I may add some more perlite this yr and a little worm poo to the mix.

The key to growing toms and peppers organically in containers for me is endo mychorizae. The roots take off and fill the container to soak up excess water. I only put it on bottom of roots each time I transplant. The regulars on container gardening will tell you that it doesn't work but it sure in heck worked for me. Oops, where's the science, I can't be right.

I mix in a cup of plant tone 5-3-3 in top half of container before planting. It is the only tone that is all org or one of the very few.

I make a tea with jamaican guano 1-10-0 just before my tom and peppers start to flower.

Drench with worm tea a few times during the season. "

Hope this helps!

I would suggest you visit the Container Gardening forum for some greater insight :-) Growing plants in containers is a significantly different process than growing them in the ground and carries with it vastly different requirements. While it can be done organically, the results are often irregular and sketchy at best. Most experienced container gardeners - many of whom are totally organic when it comes to inground plantings - opt for a modified approach when it comes to growing and fertilizing container plantings. It just provides better, more predictable results.

Here's a link to one recent discussion to get you started, at least with regards to the pros and cons of organic versus synthetic ferts in containers. Soils are a whole 'nuther matter and are worth studying in some detail. It might just speed up the process to pose your original question there and let the pros address it in detail for you

Here is a link that might be useful: container gardens - fertilizer types

I agree with Gardengal.

Al

For a number of years now I have just used the compost I make to fill the containers we have and the plants grow quite well for me. Some people think it will not work, but it has and does.

Some people think it will not work, but it has and does.

I don't think it's so much that people think it won't work as there have been numerous studies done on it and they all (that I have seen) indicate it does work, but not as well as a soilless mix with little or no compost (or sand or soil).

It's about particle size and air porosity.

We all know roots need air spaces for gas exchange and drainage. We all know that in the soil compost typically improves both.

What some of us know and try to help others understand is that growing in a container is very different than growing in the ground. What works best in the ground often doesn't work as well in containers.

Certainly one is free to choose whatever methods they like though.

I'm just sooo agreeable lately! I agree with JaG, too. I really do occasionally have an opinion of my own .... even something to offer, in case you wonder. ;o)

Al

You've opened a door that many want to chime in on. According to many, organics will not work in a container grow. I am hardheaded, and proceeded to do what many won't or can't do to make it work. Last year, i grew 40 some pepper plants, and some other stuff in my containers and was quite successful. If you are looking for more than one season, I reccomend using Al's mix - see the container gardening forum. If you are not going to try and grow more than one season with organics - you can do it, it will work, but it is more costly and time consuming than most gardners wish to stick with. As I said, I am hard headed and want challenges, and was able to do extremely well.

Still here, OK here goes some of my .025

I mix my soil mix in two stages now. One is for first transplant, second is for fruiting and final transplant. Both are mixed well in advance - as much as 6 months or as few as 6 weeks depending on time availability and funds hee hee. I mix into huge totes and keep them around 68-74 degrees to let the microlife grow and develop.

The containers I grow in are *mostly 8-14 gallon plastic nursery stock. With the weight of the containers while growing, they tend to settle into the ground quite a bit over the summer, and thats exactly what i want. I also do not really do more than trim the grass at the top level of the containers to prevent the sun from cooking the soillife and roots inside. I do use some 5 gallon buckets too, but those plants are severly root bound by seasons end.

I use a blend of fertiloams red label, a very "woody and chunky" potting soil that is locally available for both of my mixes. For a 50 gallon batch I add the following.
first mix

15 lbs of worm castings.
2 lbs green sand
2 lbs cottonseed meal
1 lbs blood meal
5 lbs bone meal - either steamed or not.
1 lbs kelp meal
5 lbs pelletized dolomite lime
1 bag composted cow manure

Alot of folks stay away from the worm castings, but to introduce microlife, it's important. After mixing thoroughly, I make a "tea" from 1 gallon of spring water, 1/2 cup worm castings, 4 tablespoons of liquid fish ferts (alaska), and 2 tablespoons of non sulfured molasses. I put an air pump (aquarium) and stone in this, and bubble it until it foams hard - usually 12 to 16 hours. I mix this with another 4 gallons of either rain water or spring water and 1/4 cup molasses. This I add to the mix in the totes to lightly moisten, and mix thoroughly. I then cover the totes, and store them, turning lightly weekly and monitoring so that they do not go anaerobic on me.

"hot mix"

5 lbs greensand
30 lbs worm castings
10 lbs bone meal
7 lbs cottonseed meal
5 lbs blood meal
5 lbs bat guano high pk
2 bage composted cow manure
3 lbs kelp meal
6 lbs pelletized dolomite lime
2 lbs grain limestone

the mix part and tea is the same.

first mix is for 1st transplant into 1 gallon containers, before this I use straight red label, second mix is for final transplant into large container.

I add a few teas during growth, water daily unless rain, and put a mix of chunky shredded bark and alfalfa pellets on top to mulch with. Once a month or so, I water with a 2 table spoon molasses to 1 gallon water mix to enrich microlife.

i have changed this mix several times, and will probably continue to do so. You don't have to get this involved, but without the microlife, the nutrients are not that available to the plant, and it will not flourish. I had mature peppers - even Bhuts in late June, early July. My garden planted peppers didn't really yield till later like mid August or so. I harvested over and over and over. Continously. it will work, but like I said, is expensive, and time consuming. My tomatoes and basil were enormous and yielded well into October. Next post I will attach some late season photos. Good luck. TiMo

One added benefit is the use of the old seasons mix into my vegetable garden. In January, I could scrape off the leaf covering in the garden and still find enourmous amounts of worms at work breaking this down. This year, my garden should really rock. The greensand and bonemeal last well into the future, more so the greensand.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/pepper/msg1013085116858.html?10

These will show a late season look at some. I think 10/05/08. Good luck Timo

** With very well developed organics, you can "push" the plants into growth beyond what most ever see, and the harvests can be huge.

According to many, organics will not work in a container grow.

Who actually says that? :) There are many, including myself, who will show studies showing the difficulty, will use logic and reason to let folks know what they are up against etc., but I certainly don't say it can't be done. I don't know anyone who says 'do organics in containers and every last plant will die a miserable death' LOL. I am hardheaded, and proceeded to do what many won't or can't do to make it work.

And I appreciate that. There are lots of folks who want to go 100% organic in containers and your experiences and methods give them something to consider.

A little off topic, but among those who grow in containers using mixes primarily composed of small particles that retain a lot of water who get results that are very good I notice a common denominator: They grow primarily tomatos and hot peppers.

Is anyone using the same 'heavy' mixes and growing say, Mediterranean herbs or vine crops like melons and cukes? Do you find it as successful with these plants as you do tomatos and hot peppers? For that matter do you find bell type peppers doing as well as the hot peppers in the heavy mixes?

By mediterranean herbs I'm guessing oregano would qualify. My wife is growing some greek oregano using the topsoil from a flower bed. It is basically the compost from years of hardwood mulching and a bit of sand in an 18' diameter container. It has been doing well for the 2 years and has been outside the entire time. Currently it has bounced back from winter frost damage and constant grazing from my children. It has almost filled the top of the container. The soil is still fluffy too.

She adds about 1" of compost to the top twice a year during the growing season and does weekly sprays with compost tea and Neptune's Harvest seaweed. She does the same for her English thyme and Italian parsley in the same media.

I don't know what a good benchmark for these plants is. We always have enough fresh herbs year round and give them away as much as possible.

Basil, Thyme, Oregano, Rosemary. All last year in same mix.

I didn't mean to the extreme JAG. Just that so many folks tried to talk me out of doing this the way I do. I know it's a challenge, both financially, and timewise. Also, lots of learning curves or mistakes to be made. I do agree with you on the peppers and tomotoes, but will actually be growing some zucchini and summer squash in same mix this year, we will see. Also considering a few others. I don't mean to be taken literally or to misdirect or upset anyone. Gardening to me is a way to have fun, relax, and enjoy some of mother earth's bounties! Side by side tests of garden grown and container grown herbs and peppers, tomotoes show that I can enjoy an earlier harvest, a larger harvest, and a more continous harvest with what I do. I will take pics all this season and show progress of the plants and harvests since I got the camera late last year, I didn't.

Bottom line. Have fun. Do what you want. Keep an open mind. Don't hurt others. Share what you reap. TiMo

I think a BIG issue is that many actually have 'this feeling' that pine bark is somehow LESS organic than compost. No one says you cannot use compost successfully in containers (though I do not), they just point out that something with fine particles (like compost) are best avoided as the primary fraction of a container soil, unless you want to fiddle around trying to balance your watering against potential salt build-up and other problems that come along with lack of air in the rhizosphere.

For those who feel they really NEED to have compost in their container media before it passes the organic sniff test, why not use a pine bark base instead, and use your compost at something less than a 15% presence. Add a little perlite and you have a soil that is guaranteed to hold air well for the entire growing season.

If you want to grow Mediterranean herbs, try a soil of
1 part uncomposted fine pine bark
1 part Turface or calcined DE (diatomaceous earth - make sure you know what I'm talking about on the DE. It's NOT the powdered product)
1 part crushed granite
I promise it will be great for the herbs.

Fertilizers - well, I'll let you guys decide, but for knowing what you're applying (NPK ...), and when it will be available to the plant, there is no comparison between soluble fertilizers and organic soil amendments - there just isn't. You might be able to 'make' the organic fertilizer approach work if you are so inclined, or if your ideology dictates it, but it really is a little like stumbling around in the dark because you have very little control over the 'what and when' of your plant's nutritional needs. Soluble fertilizers offer the clarity of knowing exactly how much of what you are applying, and it's immediately available, regardless of soil biotic activity.

Al

Rootdoctor,

I hope you don't think I was being critical of you or your methods as I am not.

I was asking a sincere question when I asked how many who are using heavier (smaller particles) mixes were growing plants less adaptable to wet soils in them and what they thought of the performance of those plants.

I agree with you that we do what we do mostly for the enjoyment and to each their own.