I don't think you could grow enough food to survive using solely stored rain water in PHX unless you had an absolutely enormous catchment system - we only get 7-8 inches of rain a year. I don't think you could raise animals either on stored rain water only. Even the native americans who lived in the arid southwest used irrigation so I'm not sure why it's been removed from the equation. I've been vegetarian since birth (25 years) and vegan for 7 of those years only recently adding eggs back into my diet after finding a guy who raises backyard chickens. So the question is not whether one can live on a vegan diet, but rather can one sustain himself in a 100% "veganic" lifestyle....I believe it's possible. I have a relatively small garden (3000sqft) but I can definitely recognize the potential in the sustainability of a veganic farm even if purely as an experiment. If I was actually trying to sustain myself solely from my land though, I would raise chickens for eggs and possibly goats for cheese/milk...as well as their manure. I don't see any problem in using manures from animals that you or someone you know have personally raised. My main issue is the source of these animal products (factory farms). The animals on these farms eat pesticide and herbicide ridden food and are pumped full of hormones and drugs. In my opinion, even using manures/blood/bonemeals from these animals may actually have a seriously negative effect on our health.

kimmsr, You still aren't understanding what is being said. In Canada, peat is gathering at 60 times the rate it is being harvested. The US gets 95% of their peat moss from Canada and they aren't using it to fuel their power plants. This is sustainable. Your information on harvesting "destroying" peatland is out of date. You even said yourself that in Ireland they harvest until it is 1 metre thick at which time it is put back to grow. This is not destroying peatland. In the past, they would harvest the peat and not worry about ecosystem restoration. Often in the UK, that peatland would be developed afterwards into housing or farm use, making the restoration today pretty much impossible. I am glad to hear that practice has changed and that they are now restoring peatland after harvesting. You say the misinformation is being spread by the peat harvesting industry, but you have ignored when I said my brother works in ecosystem restoration. He works for a company which restores specifically peat bogs and wetlands. He is one of the "other side", an environmentalist. The harvesting is sustainable. It does not destroy the ecosystem or the wildlife. Peat is a renewable resource as long as the industry is responsible and the process is monitored by government agencies and companies like the one my brother works for. The misinformation being spread here is by the extreme eco-warriors. Not everything and everyone has a hidden evil agenda. Try to remember that.

Milorganite does not keep the squirrels out of my newly dug beds. Around the cities you can get it even in most ACE hardware stores, and in any garden center worth its salt. But once the garlic is up they stay out. Run a few cloves through the blender and mix with water, and spray it out around what you to protect. It works as good as most other repellents. That is something the tiny interior cloves are actually good for. You can also dissolve garlic powder in water and spray that, but fresh garlic works better. For me the big problem is the squirrels who get every red ripe tomato before I get to pick them. Chicken wire cones protected the ripening fruit until the plants topped the chicken wire, when the squirrels just climbed the wire and picked the tomatoes right off the top. My problem with the squirrels is that neighbors (empty nesters) treat them like pets and hand feed the little ******. They are nice folks so I sorta grin and bear it with the squirrels or I would be trying to kill them off! We have cottontails around now but we never used to when there still were aging widows on the block who fed the stray cats, lots of them,too. They got the baby rabbits which is where your reduction needs to be in a metro area. In the country a good outside dog like a lab or a border collie and/or something along the line of 22/100 or 410/1000 is pretty efficient. Also wrap young tree trunks up to well higher than the snow line. Young tree bark, especially young fruit tree bark, is a bunny magnet in the winter.

Check out my rose site, www.dilip.info/roses and the links below on veganic and vegetarian gardening, a topic I've given several presentations on. Enjoy! --Dilip P.S. Within a few days, I hope to have my rose page updated with pictures from the May 15 annual local rose show - my large flowered arrangement won best of show with my organic Veteran's Honor roses! Organic rose gardening presentation http://www.dilip.info/presentations/OrganicRoseGardening/index.htm Vegetarian organic gardening presentation http://www.trianglevegsociety.org/presentations/veggardening Vegetarian organic gardening article http://trianglevegsociety.org/grapevine/v12/vegarden.html My gardening page http://www.dilip.info/plants.html My rose page http://www.dilip.info/roses.html Here is a link that might be useful: Dilip's Home Page