Which rootstock for apples -- dwarf or semi-dwarf

15 years ago

Hello, Group!

I've posted before about my plan to plant about 12 new apple trees next spring.

I'm really torn over the size. I'm considering some of the very dwarfing rootstocks, which will keep the trees under about 8 feet tall. This size tree would be a better "fit" in my almost-full yard.

However, I have concerns about the long-term vigor, health, and storm-worthiness of trees on these rootstocks.

Would I be better off just doing a regular semi-dwarfing rootstock?

Dennis

SE Michigan

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Comments (8)

calistoga_al ca 15 usda 9
15 years ago
Very dwarfing rootstocks often have such a tenuous grip on the earth they require lifelong staking in some soils. Here in dry summer California water application during the summer must be tailored to the soil texture. I see some orchards with every tree indicating the prevailing wind direction. Properly pruned semi-dwarf rootstock can be kept to "picking from the ground" size. Al
Scott F Smith
15 years ago
I find the only case when I want a dwarf is if I am spacing the trees two feet or less apart; otherwise I would prefer to have the vigor of the larger stock and prune to keep it in line. Summer pruning is necessary in this case, not just dormant pruning.

Scott
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Thapranksta: Your question is a bit difficult as most orchards do not plant all their apples on one rootstock. Often they use several different ones based on what was available when they bought the trees, what pruning/spacing system they wanted for that orchard block,ect. Sometimes hardiness is an issue. For example hardy standard rootstocks (antonovka, prunifola, ranetka ect) are necessary in super cold regions such as ND,SD, WY,MT ect. Most other areas abandoned standard rootstocks years ago as they grow too tall to easily prune/spray/pick. Easier with dwf or semi-dwarf rootstocks. Often spur-type or low vigor varieties (Jonathan) need to be on a less dwarfing rootstock or they runt out and never amount to anything. I hate the terms dwarf or semi-dwarf as too generic. Orchards years ago in WI where I live switched to using M7 as semi-dwarf and free-standing, however they pruduce tons of root suckers. Now the hot rootstocks are Bud 9 & Nick 29 but these trees must be staked for the life of the tree. M26 is still used (8'-12' tall trees) but more prone to fireblight and can tip in heavy clay soils. Every rootstock has advantages and disadvantages depending on climate, soil type, low density planting or high density planting (Tall spindle) ect. My 17 tree hobby orchard has apples on M7, MM111, and yes even 4 on a standard rootstock. I vase prune heavily on some for height control. Others seem jsut fine. My site is weird as very low nitrogen levels. I have to fertilize heavily on new trees and even lightly on old ones or the leaf color is poor. I find my apple trees do not grow as tall at my site as other sites I have grown at. Hence my need for more vigorous rootstocks. Nobody can make you a good suggestion unless we know what soil type you have, are you willing to stake each tree permanently or want free standing orchard ect. Can you provide more information? When you do purchase your trees, watch out! Many mail order and almost all retail outlets will either list them as dwf, semi-dwf or no listing at all. Always ask what rootstock they are on. Don't buy if they can't tell you. A Mcintosh on M26 will be quite shorter than one on MM111. You cannot properly space your trees if you have no idea what rootstock they are on. In fact, one mail order place I called had Cortland on two different rootstocks. After the trees were harvested, they are all mixed together since both rootstocks are "semi-dwarf". Big difference though when some were on M7 and others on Bud 118.
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Hi debstuart1- That's correct. You want to plant the tree at least as high as the original soil lineÂ otherwise roots can form above the union down into the soil which effectively removes the benefit of having a (semi) dwarfing rootstock. The reason to plant it even higher than the original soil line was talked about by Harvestman (see post below) today: Often the trees will sink a bit in their new hole, especially if it was dug too deep. Also, you'll be adding mulch on top of the soil, which, year after year, becomes a slightly higher and higher soil line. Make sense? -Glenn Here is a link that might be useful: Have you expereinced scion rooting
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Many years ago at the orchard I worked at, we had some spur type strains of McIntosh and Red Delicious. The trees were not very dense compared to their non-spur strains of these same varieties. It was neat to see so many apples so close together with all the spurs. However, where the apples touched, they did not color well. While the yield per tree was high, the amount graded out on the grading table was poor due to the skin color issue. I do recall we did not have many of them as the orchard owner was not impressed with how slow the trees grew. I too have always heard to use a large vigorous rootstock on spur types to compensate for this.
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Stark Bros is a good nursery but one common complaint people have about it is exactly what you mention: they do not tell you the rootstock. If you want more good nurseries, you can check Tierra Madre, Once Green World, Womack, Maple Valley Orchard, Van Well, Cumberland Valley Nursery, Vaughn nursery (the last two are known for peaches). All the ones I mentioned, either I ordered them myself or heard good things about them from many posters. Stark has its own Stark tree varieties. I do understand that you'll have no choice if you want their particular variety.
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franktank232
15 years ago
Scott-
In the case of semi dwarf, what rootstock do you choose? I may add a couple more apple trees, since the two i have are doing well.
Scott F Smith
15 years ago
Frank, I would say my order of preference is M7 / G30 / M26 / MM106. I am not the most picky person as far as rootstocks go however, all four seem pretty good to me.

Scott
Michael
15 years ago
As I understand, M26 is rather susceptible to fireblight. Buyer beware! That's my 2-cents worth.
Scott F Smith
15 years ago
I read things like that as well, but of the dozen or so apple trees I have lost to fireblight, only one was on M26. Two were M7s and I have about an equal number of each in my orchard. M9 and B9 have been the most susceptible; another reason to get semi-dwarf over dwarf. The Geneva series clearly is better on the fireblight front. Unfortunately I have lost many of my G16 due to the latent virus issue with it. It is not a problem unless you try to graft something to it. G11 and G30 have been great, with zero fireblight loss. I probably should have said if I were buying a big pile of rootstocks now I would get one of those two. Unfortunately very few nurseries are selling trees on those rootstocks.

Scott
jerry43
15 years ago
I'd avoid M26 and MM106 as crown rot may be a problem in your area on poorly drained soils. Where fireblight may be a concern, rootstocks like M7 that sucker will allow a point of entry for fireblight. Also avoid fireblight susceptible varieties grafted on fireblight sensitive rootstocks such as M26 or you will be asking for trouble.

Myself, I'm going with Bud 9 for those I'm planting near my house. The rest will be MM111 where I won't be able to water regularily and wind is a problem. My third choice would be M7. I wasn't able to get any of Geneva 11 or Geneva 30 which would be my first choices. Geneva 16 is noted for its sensitivity to latent viruses.

Cummins nursery seems to have the best choice in rootstocks especially if can wait till 2010 as they have posted that list now. But I'm sure, you are like me and won't them ASAP. I've got trees and scionwood coming from many places. So far what I've planted this fall have been good looking stock. Better than what I received last spring from some of the same places.
fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX
15 years ago
As already mentioned the choice of rootstock is affected by many factors. When I was in Amarillo Texas, there was no better rootstock than M9. Just the right size tree at 8-10ft with moderate summer pruning and no problems of any kind. Never lost a tree. I did support most of them. Now that I'm 400 miles further south and on a weaker soil, M9 is a lousy choice. Way too small of a tree. M26 is too weak also. So I'm trying M7, MM106, MM111, G11, and G30.

My point is that no one else can pick a rootstock for you. We don't know your situation and you won't fully until you try.

The Fruitnut

Which rootstock for apples -- dwarf or semi-dwarf

Comments (8)

calistoga_al ca 15 usda 9

Scott F Smith

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