Good luck trying to find new power equipment that has an engine made in the USA. Most of the engines are made in China, although I think they still make small gas engines in Canada. Poulan, maybe.

Is a Chinese engine necessarily "bad?" Doesn't it come down to oversight and quality control Ariens requires. Come on now, do you think Ariens says to some fly by night company operating along the Yangtze River, give me 1000 engines sight unseen? All you Walmart shoppers, 80% of the items you buy in there are from China.

I guess we need to live with the reality that we need to accept Chinese products. We as a nation do not care and we allowed manufacturing to leave. We do not have it in our character anymore and have zero pride to defend what was once great in the USA. What a joke, yeh, Americans standing up and boycotting Chinese or Japanse products. Those days are long gone. Sad thing is, it is our power to control this...the purchaser has the power...but not the will.

Lets all look in the mirror now.

The Ariens I have seen with LCT engines say "Ariens by LCT" on them. However, if you search for new B&S engines, their snow engine is dubbed "Snow King", not "Polar Force". It could be that only those B&S engines sold to Ariens are called Polar Force but are identical to the Snow Kings.

As for the quality of Chinese products, it's all up to the QA/QC process. I've got a pair of cordless tools made in China, but the parent company cares enough to make sure the Chinese plants are up to the task. LCT is in the U.S. because MTD tried to open their own engine plant and was shot down by the EPA. There are no individual parts available for a lot of the sub-assemblies on LCT engines. If the carburetor is not metering fuel properly, the only recourse is to replace the entire carb. Another common area of failure are the valve rockers. The studs they sit on crack, as well as the bolts being improperly tightened, allowing the rockers themselves to wallow out and take the rest of the engine with them. Virtually every LCT engine we sell has a pronounced surge at idle, and once again, due to the lack of any parts, it's impossible to fix.

Called Briggs customer support. They confirmed to me that the Ariens Briggs is a true Briggs engine and it is made in the USA. In regards to Polar Force....they have no involvement in that. Ariens labels that on their own. In regards to parts support, Briggs does not recognize the Polar Force name, so like with most things, you need the model number off the engine which Briggs does not allow Ariens to remove. I asked if the Snow Series is the same as Polar force...responded...yes, essentially the same. So there could be some differences, not sure. I guess one would need to get the exact model number off the showroom floor and then call them to compare to a Toro Snow Series.

After seeing the Ariens, my vote is for Ariens...seemed more solid. I did not like the Toro plastic...too much. I liked the simple Ariens chute rotation design very smooth operation. And the gear case was suspended with several supports, the Toro was not and only utilizing the supports on the housing ends. The Toro supports between the handlebars was plastic and the handles twisted when moved. The Ariens was more solid.

"Can someone reveal the secrets behind Briggs engines and other Chinese ones."
Secrets??? Not sure there are any.

"I was looking for Ariens until someone said they are Chinese garbage."
What makes you think that being made in China is equal to garbage. If that is so then many of us who buy at Wal Mart, Home Depot, Target, Lowes, Costco, etc., must be filling our homes with garbage. How much chinese made merchandise is in your home?

" Is Polar Force by Briggs a Chinese disguise? And the Toro saids Briggs Snow...something (do not recall the name now). I am not into buying a Chinese engine by any means and will avoid."

Please tell us why you have singled out chinese made engines from all of the other chinese made products we consume. Why is it not ok to buy a chinese gasoline engine but it's ok to buy all the other stuff that comes from China. Like the computer you are working on.

" I went onto the Briggs site, but did not see a Polar Force name."

Call Briggs or look at the engine if it's important. The reputation of Briggs is far more important. I wonder how much of Briggs production is outsourced to Mexico and Canada while still retaining the Made in USA brand.

"What makes you think that being made in China is equal to garbage. If that is so then many of us who buy at Wal Mart, Home Depot, Target, Lowes, Costco, etc., must be filling our homes with garbage. How much chinese made merchandise is in your home?"

It's not so much that 'Made in China = Garbage', but that the LCT engines in particular have proved to be of the lowest possible quality compared to other available small engine makes. Some of us also value community businesses, and make it a point not to ever shop at Lowe's, Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Target and other big box stores whenever possible. For instance, my vehicle was assembled in the U.S. and 98% of its parts were made in the U.S.

"Please tell us why you have singled out chinese made engines from all of the other chinese made products we consume. Why is it not ok to buy a chinese gasoline engine but it's ok to buy all the other stuff that comes from China. Like the computer you are working on."

Most silicon manufactories are in Tiawan, not China. I know China thinks it controls Tiawan, but Tiawan and the rest of the world don't. After the silicon is laid, the boards are assembled into computers in America for the most part.

It is recognized that except for a brief period China controled Taiwan for centuries. They are dancing a slow inevitable dance to assimilating Taiwan without killing the economic engine. The US realized that long ago.
Look carefully at the made-in label found on all manner of electronic products - It's China.

So why are you buying chinese goods if they are inferior quality? Speaking of computers China is now apparently at the head of the list of fast super computers. As I understand it China made the all-important switches that allowed that latest increase in processing speed.

May: Don't get overly concerned with the Origin of Manufacturer , unless you are a Die Hard Flag Waver !
Most of todays Major Manufacturers are Iso Certified therefore all Policies and Procedure's are in place for Specification Compliance . Unfortunately it is a sign of the Economic Times we are within and to compete outsourcing is required to keep a float . Where it is made whether USA / Canada / Mexico / Japan or even China or Taiwan these engines at least Honda Clones and now Briggs per your example are still fine units. Don't get me wrong I would prefer North American Manufacturing , but mostly it appears that is a thing of the past within Small Engine Origin . Enjoy your purchase with confidence within it's Design .

"For instance, my vehicle was assembled in the U.S. and 98% of its parts were made in the U.S."

98%??? No possible way. Having worked for Ford and having a son-in-law that works for GM, there is no possible way that that statement is true regardless of brand.

I tend to agree with Orange on this one , majority of sub component assemblies have been outsourced to Japan , Mexico , Taiwan on the Big - 3. What is your vehicle designation Sky ?

What many auto companies do to make it look like they have a greater percentage of US made parts is give data by weight. Since the engine, transmission, frame and body work make up the greatest amount of weight of the vehicle, these numbers can approach almost 90 percent. When I started at Ford in 1990, if I remember correctly, the percentage of vehicle that had to be made in the states to be classified as a domestic automobile was 68%. This was not judged by weight at that time.

Is a Tecumseh engine an OK snowblower engine. I was considering buying a 2006 Ariens snowblower professional model, but is has a Tecumseh. I read somewhere they throw rods.

When I get a blown Tecumseh engine, it's always the rod, but it's a very tiny percentage. 99% of Tecumseh engines never have that problem.

The do have a problem with carburetor varnish from leaving old gas in the tank without a shutoff valve, much more so than Briggs or the Jap models.

Our Ariens snowblower has a 6.5 hp Tecumseh, OHV, and it runs fine, for three years since new. It has a fuel shut-off valve, so I run the carburetor dry every time I am finished with it. And I drain the tank and carburetor in the spring. So far, no problems with the carburetor.

May: I agree with both Bay and ER , have had both BS & Tec and majority of the Tecumseh issues are with non maintained units . As for the ethanol related issues with the T yep their more prone to restrictions and dirt intrusion by design . As indicated a little common sense and preventative maintenance solves the majority of concerns within that area . Rest assured the Snow King is a Work Horse that when maintained will give you yrs of service .

I'm shopping for a snowblower and think I've got it narrowed down to the John Deere 827E with the 250cc B&S Snow Series engine or one of the Ariens. Both list the Briggs Snow Series engines. The JD is a little higher priced I'm wondering if anyone has a Deere and whether its is worth the extra dollars. I know service support will be more convenient in my area with the john Deere dealer.

Things made in china are necessarily "bad" and it does matter. I would rather shovel than spend 600-1000 dollars on a machine that breaks down in 3 months has no replacement parts and zero quality control. A lot of companies are very coy about stating where the engine is manufactured. Very naive to say we have to accept poor quality products because it's too late.

myopin: You wanted Free Trade and your reaping the benefits Now !

We don't have a free trade agreement with China.

These comments are either tongue in cheek or written by the clueless. I have a snowblower with a Briggs engine still running from 1973. It is now at the cottage and I have a new Craftsman 4 years ago with the B&S Chinese engine. Runs beautifully. I think the blower is made in the USA.. Only problem is with a wonky joy stick controlled chute. It has wheel release clutches (power steering) which really eases turning for a larger machine. Don't worry about the Chinese B&S engines.

"What makes you think that being made in China is equal to garbage. If that is so then many of us who buy at Wal Mart, Home Depot, Target, Lowes, Costco, etc., must be filling our homes with garbage. How much chinese made merchandise is in your home?"

sort of a difference between chancing a $10 polo shirt from Wally World vs a $800 blower with a generic engine from HD I guess.

Remember when that Kathy Lee got in trouble for having clothes made by kids over sees. Hell thats all the rage now and accepted. Ditto on dvd players and tvs. We Americans need a dvd player for $30 so they make them over seas. If that sucker cost $65 here in the US would it really break us? I don't know, a generation has been raised to believe those are disposable items. Plus the tech is engineered to change so fast it may not be worth building something to last a decade. Ever try to use a laptop from 5 years ago to surf the web?

Now cars and power equipment are different. People don't like buying that stuff because the costs are higher. They want something to last. Their was a trust there with the old engines.

I have a chinese engine on my Toro but have only had it a season. Will it last 14 years? BTW, the mower cost no more last summer than I paid 14 years ago...thats telling you something as well...The original post is 5 years old...I'd be curious how they are holding up for people?

If North America was to produce everything Asia is currently doing,

Think for a second.... they ( Asian People in China, Japan,etc.. ) wear a MASK when they are outside....There are days you cannot even see a street sign on the corner your standing on,,,

Is this because the Asians are so greedy for money they risk their health for the mighty dollar?

OR

Because your Commander and Chief along with the Prime Minister of Canada along with all other countries save their countries air so we can walk outside and not have to worry what toxic waste we breathe.

Just saying...

The plastic fuel shut off knob on our brand new Ariens Compact 24 broke off with a bit of the metal shaft embedded inside the knob. The local dealer we purchased it from believed the knob was forced, which is possible as I loaned it to my 72-year-old neighbor, who claimed he did not force it but may have by mistake. I was honest about this with the dealer, who refused to do a warranty repair claiming user error and replaced both the knob and fuel shut off valve at my expense. Ariens refuses to warranty this as well. Please be aware that these knobs and valves appear flimsy and are easily damaged. The engine is an LTC Chinese made product and is very noisy and vibrates excessively as well and appears to be a cost cutting measure by Ariens. Lesson learned and will spend extra money next time on a Honda.

Or Toro...?

If Toro snow blowers have better motors and otherwise good build and materials quality then yes. Had Toro walk behind mowers in the mid '90s that were bulletproof so will check out their snowblower line too once the Ariens wears out, which may be sooner rather than later unfortunately. Will try to avoid anything sold by or built to big box store specifications in the future.

The '90s seem to be a golden age of quality for many consumer goods, including RV refrigerators for example. The fridge in my 98 Class C is still going strong with many reports of fridges manufactured in the 2000s crapping out with refrigerant loss. Replacing these fridges can in some cases involve popping out the windshield, which makes replacement very pricey.

Have two Toro,s Blowers bullet proof engines , 3 yr warranty on one and 2 yr on the smaller unit .

Some products I have that were made in China turned out to be excellent, OXO brand plastic utensils comes to mind. The thing that gets me about China made is hardware , nuts bolts and screws. I have yet to find a Chinese made slotted screw that can take much torque before the head either strips out or off. There is no comparison to old American made screws. Chinese drywall screws with phillips are pretty good, but the rest of their hardware leaves a lot to be desired. It reminds me of the hardware used on Japanese motorcycles back in the sixties, garbage. I suspect Chinese small engines made today have the same kind of hardware. For this reason alone I wouldn't buy one.

Have cleaned up the snowblower, not as much snow this season (so far) but cold, that's not news.

It's a Toro Power Clear 210e, with a Briggs & Strattton 141cc engine. Carburetor has no adjustment per se, just idle RPM by way of governor vane linkage. What is the specified RPM for these, I am reading in manuals available online, many 2 stroke Toro models in the past ran 4300 to 4700 RPM, is this OK for these?

All the newer power clear have 3300-3500 Rpm settings . The carb is adjustable but you must remove the Welch plugs to reach the jets . Prior to tinkering with the carb try some concentrated fuel cleaner efuel with these small 4 cycle engines will cause all kinds of erratic engine issues including rpm ..

How much newer? You mention "4 cycle", but as mentioned this is a 2 stroke, from 2011. I use good fuel. It doesn't act erratic. I just need to know the factory RPM specification. It appears that that the earlier Tecumseh was up to 4700 RPM, the latest engine that I can find info was year 2000, and seems to be 4000-4300. A couple hundred RPM one way or another is significant and makes a tremendous difference in performance.

I don't know why all this stuff is a "secret" these days, the manufacturers won't divulge anything, the owners manuals are just 90% fluff and CYA for idiots e.g. "Do Not Consume Contents of Battery."

ted, sorry about the above link. thought it was a 4 stroke. found this, hope it helps.

• The Toro Agreement – In 1999, Briggs & Stratton made a license agreement with The Toro Company of Bloomington, Minnesota USA. to produce the Toro R*Tek piston ported version of their E series 2-stroke engine (AKA Lawn-Boy DuraForce) for use in Toro Snow Throwers. The engine was a 141cc 2 cycle that produced from 4 hp to 6.5 hp at 3700 to 4000 rpm on a 50:1 gas & oil mix. A higher power 7-HP model was made (Engine Model# 84330) for use in heavier duty machines such as the single stage Snow Commander (2001-2008) & 2 stage Power Max 726TE/6000 (2004-2008), the extra horsepower was obtained using Transfer Ports in the piston & cylinder wall and ran at the same operating speed as the 6.5 hp engines (4000rpms). Production stopped in 2011.

Yeah , same here mine is a 2107 4 cycle Briggs . If yours is a 2 stroke it would be the Toro R Tek . Don,t recall any Briggs 2 cycles . Just contact your local toro dealer he will advise of proper engine designation and specifications . If it is Duraforce spin off its a quality engine .

The operator's manual claims it's a Briggs & Stratton 084100. So I can't imagine why it wouldn't, I believe them.

hi ted, the only way to find out exactly what engine you have is to get the numbers off the engine, not sure where to find them but they're there. rpm should be set for your engine.

Ted , yep your absolutely correct Brigg 2 cycle unit . Unfortunately have not seen any reference to its correct operating rpm . 3300-3600 for majority of short block 4 cycles . I will try my Buddy at Toro and see what I can get for you . Update : Apparently dependent on which Model 084131 , 084132 or 084133 the Base Rpm of 4000 could increase by +300 towards 4800 for the Winter Engine Snowblower 2 Cycles Ted . Obviously with peaky 2-stroke power bands higher rpm settings are within the governor requirements .Having Raced Professionally within 2-stroke snowmobiles and dirt bikes , it was common to tweak the power band via muffler or expansion chamber design changes much as a governor vane will enable . I would set your rpm setting according to base setting of 4000 and increase according to load factors normally encountered . Heavy or Wet snow may require bumping up the base set point . 800 rpm will not damage a 2 stroke , as it may a 4 stroke by damaging valve train components . I would verify via proper model indentification and dealer confirmation as previously advised if warranted in your opinion .

Hope the previous addendum helps Ted !

Interesting information, thank you very much! Will have to dig for exact model. I noticed a big difference in performance depending on RPM, naturally, but don't want to break anything. Setting RPM is a little touchy as well.

The 1 st 10 numbers will be the Model Designation .

Hm... "First ten numbers" don't exist that I can determine?

There's the Toro model # 38593; Serial # 311002024

The engine itself is marked ABSXS.1411AA 279374

Yes 1 st 10 digits for Briggs Ref Model Designation not Toro . Where attempting to narrow down the Engine Rpm requirement www.Brigg and Stratton.com will illustrate this designation for you within their snowblower engine guide .

Yes ABSXS-1411A is Engine Designation you need for your Toro Dealer to provide your proper Rpm set point Ted , or to order a proper service manual for you engine group , Good luck Bud !

Thanks, I'm sure somewhere around 4800 will be just fine...

If you're buying a new snowblower the only company in the USA that both engineers and builds the engines is Honda and of course they are primarily for commercial use. I'm based in Canada and we can get them at local dealers only, for about $2,600 - $8,000. Much more than you would pay for a Toro or Ariens.

There's a good article here explaining who makes what - https://movingsnow.com/2020/2020-snow-blowers-who-makes-each-brand/

Also for OEM Engines like many products there is a design, build and test component. I've seen many people complain about LCT Engines, yes they are "built" in China, no they are not designed or tested there. LCT is very clear on their website - the Corporate Office is in Travelers Rest, SC. "Operations Management, Design Engineering, Manufacturing Engineering, Quality Assurance, Production Control, Warranty / Technical Services, Logistics and other Administrative functions are solely based in South Carolina, USA."

LCT also has a Shanghai Office - "LCT has a dedicated staff of professional Engineers, Quality Assurance Teams, and Logistics/Sourcing Personnel based in our downtown Shanghai, China offices." So yes, LCT has Chinese Engines, but that doesn't mean that Ariens is using an engine that was designed, built and tested in China because it's 10-20x cheaper for them to do that so they can increase profit margins. Not at all.

I don't get the feeling that products made outside of USA or Canada are "cheap". I've been in both mechanical, medical and software engineering and this was never the case. A good example is Loncin, they were known as a Honda clone at one point but they're known globally for their quality engines so much that they sell about 3 Million engines per year - "It has annual production capacity of 2,500,000 motorcycles, 3,000,000 motorcycle engines, and 150,000 all-terrain vehicles (ATVs)."

Loncin builds engines for Toro that rival anything Honda or LCT make and there are other brands such as PowerMore that are good quality as well - you will find these on Cub Cadet and Troy-Bilt. Briggs & Stratton? Tecumseh? Yep, built in China too, Briggs owns it's facility there and Tecumseh is part of LCT now. In reality USA companies are using facilities in China to build engines, not necessarily designing them there except in the case of Toro and Loncin. At the very minimum the design spec comes from the brand company and they are doing their own quality assurance. The engine doesn't just show up at the assembly plant and they slap a sticker on it, there's a little more to it than that.

Overall I think it's a good thing, product manufacturers in every market are getting sub-components from niche market companies that specialize in them. Think companies like Toyota or Honda are manufacturing every component in their products? They don't make their own steel, aluminum, plastic or crude oil do they? Ever seen a Toyota Oil rig? At some point it must be OK to buy a component from somebody else, and they don't need to be your next door neighbour.

I mean... do you ever go to the produce section of the grocery store and think hey, how long has this fruit been in season? It's OK to get your fruit 12 months per year from somewhere but it's not OK to build an engine outside of the border?