Verticutter w/ seed hopper - use broadcast spreader?

11 years ago

I'm renting a verticutter that has a seed hopper (Bluebird), but the store tells me not to put seed into it because it won't work right. Rather, use a broadcast spreader. I see this advice echoed on this board.

My question is, will this approach work for seeding and also overseeding TTTF? Several people have told me you absolutely need a slit seeder for TTTF.

I was planning to run the verticutter before and after seeding with the spreader, using a 1.4-inch depth setting.

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Comments (13)

Lawn_Hobby
Original Author
11 years ago
Sorry, not 1.4 inch...1/4 inch.
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nearandwest
11 years ago
I know this much...you definitely do NOT want to run a verticutter over an area after it has been seeded. If you do, you will damage and displace much of the seed.
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There are many oponents to any mechanical disturbance of the soil. I'm not one. I have used plug aeraters, dethatchers and vericutters. Both aerationa and slit seeding are agressive turf operations. The reason for their use needs to justify the damage that theye will cause. Aeration is used to reduce compaction and/or reduce thatch build-up. It is not a preventative, it is reactive cure. It can also be used for adding an amendment (like OM) by topdressing into the holes. Seeding is not one of the purposes, but if your lawn needs aeration, overseeding is usually a suggested compliment to help repair the damage. Although a search of youtube will show some videos of grass seed germinating around aeration holes, I've never noticed any advantage to combining aeration and seeding that was an improvement over just overseeding and topdressing. Slit seeding gives very good results on bare soil or thin lawns. The "slit" seeders available for rental are, as has been said, actually verticuters which cut a furrow/trench into the soil with a 4 toothed blade. You describe your lawn as fairly thick. If you run a verticutter over an existing lawn, seed will be placed in the furrows you have created, but the existing turf plants that where standing in the furrows will be destroyed or severly injured. What's the gain? Although this drought and heat has created some dead spots in my lwan and thined out some of the other areas, those thined areas are still fairly thick. I own a "slit" seeder, but I wont be using it on the fairly thick areas and I probably wont use it on the dead areas. I'll be hand raking the dead areas to uncover bare soil, then I'll overseed broadcast seed over the hole lawn (heavier on the bare soil than the rest of the lawn) and topdress the bare and thin areas with peat moss. I suggest you spot spray with Weed B Gon Max with CG Control to reduce weeds (you can't seed until 2 weeks after applying). If you feel Overseeding is necessary, start reducing mowing height over the 2 week period after the application of the WBG in increments until the existing grass is about 1-1 1/2".on the day you overseed. Rake any bare/thin areas to expose the soil. Seed the bare areas and if desired, overseed the hole lawn (the bag should give recommended seed rate for new lawns and for overseeding), lightly topdress the bare and thin areas, apply starter fertilizer and keep moist until germination. Increas volumn but decrease number of waterings. Begin watering regularing after the third mowing. Most importantly: Start using a regular fertilization and lawn care regiment including proper mowing and watering (hervicde and insecticde when called for) to keep a good healthy lawn. Heavier end of season (during early to late fall) fertilization is very important for strong healthy turf. Fertilizing at other times is optional and should be organic.
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Lawn_Hobby
Original Author
11 years ago
Well, I could see why you wouldn't want to do it while or after grass germinates, but I've heard of people doing it immediately after seeding. If you think about it, that is what the devices with built-in hoppers are essentially doing. So, maybe you're right, and some of the seed would get wrecked that way...I really don't know because I haven't tried it yet.
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nearandwest
11 years ago
I have never heard of anyone running a vertical mower over an area after it has been seeded; at least I've never heard of anyone admitting to doing such a thing. I believe what the devices with built-in hoppers are doing is verticutting, then dropping the seed into the grooves created by the vertical mowing action, thus promoting the "seed to soil contact". After the seed is dropped, there may be a small roller on the machine that presses down the area that has just been seeded.
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grass1950
11 years ago
nearandwest,

All of these "slit" seeders have a drop spreader that dispenses seed in front of the verticutter unit. I've used the BillyGoat and the Ryan Ren-O-Thin. I've never investigated to see if there was any seed damage, but I can attest to their ability to bury the seed into the furrows and I have had very good success with germination. Every furrow produces thick lines of grass. All I can say is that it works. You are correct that a "true" slit seeder (never seen one for rent) has verticutter blades, followed by disk blades, followed with metering tubes that drop seed into the furrow, followed by a roller to close the furrow and cover the seed.
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grass1950
11 years ago
BTW, the drop spreaders that come with these units do not properly shut off. Small seed like KGB will continuously poor out wasting seed. They may work with large seed like fescue but I find it easier to just broadcast. Also I omited the word "rental" in the first sentence "All of these RENTAL "slit" seeders..."
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nearandwest
11 years ago
The Brillion unit I have used is not a true "verticutter". It has disc blades that create a narrow furrow into which the seed is dropped, but that in no way is a true verticutter. It is more of a slicing action as opposed to a vertical mowing operation. If it was a true verticutter, it would leave a mess behind the unit and the seed would never make it into the furrows.

And yes, also with the Brillion seeder, we tried to drop bentgrass seed, and the seed continued to drop even after the hopper was supposedly closed. Seed was too small.
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grass1950
11 years ago
I looked up the Brillion overseeder. 3pt. hitch? I see what you are describing and the rental seeders we are talking about are nothing close to that. I beleive they are accurately described as verticutters with a hopper. I don't think I would use them to overseed a lush lawn as they do make some mess and I imagine anyone caught using one on a golf course would be shot, but cutting an existing thin lawn short prior to use reduces the mess and I've been impressed with the results.
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Lawn_Hobby
Original Author
11 years ago
"I don't think I would use them to overseed a lush lawn as they do make some mess and I imagine anyone caught using one on a golf course would be shot, but cutting an existing thin lawn short prior to use reduces the mess and I've been impressed with the results."

Yup, that's exactly what I'll be doing next week.
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nearandwest
11 years ago
Lawn Hobby,

Good luck with your project next week. I hope what you are using is similar to a Ryan Mataway Overseeder.

Grass,

Brillion makes a walk-behind unit that mirrors the operation of their tractor-mount unit.

I suspect we may be talking about different machines that accomplish the same task in slightly different ways, but with similar results.

I still contend that if you truly verticut an area that has just been seeded, your seed will be displaced away from the target area.
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grass1950
11 years ago
nearandwest,

If I recall you work for a golf course and are familiar with equipment. These are not mataways--not even close. The only place I've ever seen a mataway or similar machine for rent is at a rental company that specializes in renting specialized equipment to golf courses and professional landscapers. They will not rent to a homeowner.

I just finished researching Ryan, Bluebird and Billygoat. They identify the basic machine as a power rake, but they have multiple reels available. one class of blade is flail and is used for dethatching. A second blade class is fixed. They identify the fixed blades as vertislicing blades--what I have been calling verticutter as I assumed the were the same thing as they look like blades on verticutters I've seen.
The Ryan machine I have used and own is called a Ren O Thin Spot Seeder. It has interchangable flail and fixed blades--fixed for seeding. It also has a drop spreader that sits on a bracket on the front and is powered by friction with the front wheels. Ryan evidently no longer makes the Spot Seeder but does still make the Ren O Thin which is identicle in looks to mine which is probably 15-20 years old.

Blueird still makes this type of seeder with a power rake/verticutter unit very similar to the Ryan but the drop seeder is at the back of the machine.

Billygoat still makes their version with a drop spreader in front and the powerrake/verticutter unit behind.

Please take a look at the link and scroll down to the OS Overdeeder and let us know if those fixed blades look like verticutter blades to you. I'd like to e able to use the proper terminolgy.

http://www.beavervalleysupply.com/sectionb/billygroa.htm

Thanks.
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nearandwest
11 years ago
Actually, I oversee the maintenance of 3 golf courses for a management company.

It appears that LawnHobby has done quite a bit of research to get to this point, and as long as he/she has the right equipment to do the job correctly, I am sure LawnHobby will be satisfied with the results of the seeding process.
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grass1950
11 years ago
I wasn't asking for LawnHobby, I too am sure he will be satisfied. I was inquiring for my own understanding and to increase my knowledge.
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Verticutter w/ seed hopper - use broadcast spreader?

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Verticutter w/ seed hopper - use broadcast spreader?

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