7 to 14 days.

Be patient, Princess 77 makes one of the most beautiful Bermuda lawns.

If weather permits, overseed it with Turf-Type Perennial Ryegrass.

If weather permits, overseed it with Turf-Type Perennial Ryegrass.

Really? Why would you want to slow down spring green up and rob the Bermuda of nutrients all spring competing with rye until it dies?

If you are in the Transition zone (cold winters and hot summers) then you can mix cool season grasses with warm season grasses for best year-round apperance.

Who cares about spring green up when you have PR in the mix. As far as nutrients, simple: Add more.

I just came back from Dallas 2 weeks ago, and the Hotel where I was staying had a mix of Bermudagrass and Perennial Ryegrass. The Perennial Ryegrass was obviously green, and so was the Bermuda. It had a superb look, fine bladed and dark green. In the summer months, the PR will die and the bermuda will thrive easely with good fertilization.

It seems like a very common practice on Hotels in the transition zone.

I have pictures to prove it.

Here are a few pictures of Bermudagrass mixed with Perennial Rye:

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb141/auteck/CIMG2185.jpg

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb141/auteck/CIMG2194.jpg

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb141/auteck/CIMG2185.jpg

Most homeowners don't have much luck with that approach. No doubt, some people do it to get that year round green. It tends to work best in areas that go immediately from cool to blazing hot and kill the rye quickly. In most of NC, perennial rye is a true perennial. It will take a beating in summer, but most of it won't completely die unless you use an herbicide to kill it. It will linger around long enough to slow the greenup of your bermuda and keep it from filling in as thick.

I just came back from Dallas 2 weeks ago, and the Hotel where I was staying had a mix of Bermudagrass and Perennial Ryegrass. The Perennial Ryegrass was obviously green, and so was the Bermuda.

Interesting! I just happen to own a commercial landscaping business that my Son operates and we have a lot of commercial accounts in DFW. True we do over seed Bermuda in the Fall with Rye grass for those who are willing to pay the premium to do so. However we return when the Bermuda starts to green up, spray with Atrazine to kill the Rye grass off, and heavily fertilize to get the Bermuda greened up quickly. If we did not do this, it would be mid June or July before the Bermuda would take off, and look very bad in the transition.

Why do we do this on commercial accounts? Simple it keeps us employed and making money in the winter months for those willing to pay the big bucks for the service.

I am also a sod farmer I would never recommend a home owner over seed their Bermuda in the fall because most are not willing to invest enough sweat equity and cash to do it right or even understand the consequences if not done properly. I get a lot of calls from previous customers complaining about poor green up of their Bermuda and weed invasion after over seeding in the fall. All I can tell them to do is quit that, fertilize heavily, keep it short, and dry to kill off the Rye. For those that insist on over seeding, I either instruct them on the proper way to do it, explain the consequences, or offer the service via my SonÂs business.

Is that Nutgras in there or is that the overseeding (pic 2)?

Auteck\'s 1st Pic

Auteck\'s 2nd Pic
{{gwi:98063}}
Auteck\'s 3rd Pic

Yep nutgrass or nutsedge. Have those weeds in my yard. Fortunately, they blend in with my st augustine lawn. That's what make them a great residence lawn unlike bermuda which is a nightmare....

Hey, thanks for posting the pictures. Doesn't that look great? Nice and tight. It was the 21st of May when I took those picture, and the Perennial Ryegrass can clearly be seen...

Everyone I asked while in Dallas told me that the summers there are brutal! How can Perennial Ryegrass survive that late in the season?

Summer here are brutal, the Rye usually dies off by May, not this year though, one of the coolest and wettest in decades. Anyway it takes the Bermuda 4 to 8 weeks from the time the Rye dies off before it fills in and gets back to vigor if you let Mother Nature kill off the Rye. Like I said we hit the Rye with Atrazine in late Feb to early March to kill it, fertlize heavily, and the Bermuda is in full swing by April.

I would let mother nature take its course. Both grasses look very compatible when cut relatively tall (2 inches)

billl, you are correct. Perennial Ryegrass does survive our summers, and it can become an eyesore mixed in with Bermudagrass in the middle of the summer.

I think pound per pound in my neck of the woods (central NC) the Perennial Ryegrass wins hands downs to the Bermuda based on wich one stays green the longest.

The Rye may die, but it will be short-lived, 2 to 3 three months at worst. Then you can re-seed again and have green again of course.

Any updates on this project?

Yes, no?

Coult you post some pictures of your princess 77 lawn, please.

Anyone have any pictures of what a Princess 77 lawn looks like?

Princess 77 is garbage. What you seen in those pictures is mostly Perennial Ryegrass which has a superb look.

Unless you're in Florida or south Texas, forget it!

Don't bother with it.

auteck said:
Be patient, Princess 77 makes one of the most beautiful Bermuda lawns.

Princess 77 is garbage.

Guess you had a change of heart eh?

Totally.

texas-weed, if you remember a thread from last year when I purchased some 419 sod for this area in my yard, I was left very disappointed with the results. That was 419 hybrid that is at least 10 times better than Princess 77.

The garbage part really applies to people living in the cool season states, if you're down south, really south, then I think is just fine to have a bermuda lawn. Definatelly better than St. Augustine grass - way better actually.

As mentioned above, anyone have any photos of a princess 77 lawn?

Austin_kl, how did yours turn out?

{{gwi:102479}}

I have decided to get rid of what ever the previous homeownner had in my yard and seed a new lawn here in the next week or two. I would really like to try Princess 77. I live in west Texas, where the temps flirt with 90+ for about 8 months out of the year. We do not get much rain around here. My yard gets full sun all day as there is no trees around. Anyone have any advise about seeding Princess 77, or should i go with a different bermuda?

I seeded my Princess in July of last year, and it almost looks like the picture above. I'm telling you though, when the temps get really hot you have to pay attention, and the grass will tell you when it needs water. It will start to look grayish in color and then it will "bake," and I mean get crispy within a day. However it does recover amazingly quick. I usually water it at least twice a week (max 4 days with no water) during the summer.

So if water is an issue, I might choose differently. Also if your not getting FULL sun, then your going to have bare spots.

I seeded my lawn with Princess in July of last year as well. Here are some pics of what it looks like now.

{{gwi:102481}}

{{gwi:102482}}

bshudson, nice lawn! How high do you mow it? Rotary or reel? By the way, it looks like your mower blades may need sharpening.

bshudson, yeah, that and your golf ball label was not perfectly horizontal, heh, heh. Great looking lawn dude!

Full sun means FULL sun. It means southern exposure and there can be no trees, buildings, shrubs, fences, brick mailboxes, or anything between your lawn and the horizon to the east, west, or south. FULL sun.

Thanks!

Yeah, I've been trying to find someone around here who can sharpen reel mowers. I called one place that's been in business 20+years and he said I was the first to ever ask about reels. It might be easier just to purchase a new reel and bed knife from tru-cut. Oh well the search continues.....

As far as cutting height? Exactly how do you measure that? Do you mow and then measure the grass or do you place the mower on a hard surface (i.e. drive way) and measure the height of the bed knife in relation to the ground?

Thanks,
Brad

You might want to check with the maintenance shop at a local golf course. They probably have someone there who is willing to sharpen your blades.

As far measuring as mowning height, just stick a ruler down in the grass....at least that's how I do it. My lawn is not completely level, so I pick the most level area and measure in several spots to get an accurate reading. I'm sure my neighbors think I am crazy!

How high do you mow it?

I measured aftered I mowed today and it looks like it's 5/8 inch (using the ruler in the grass procedure). I measured the height of the bed knife while parked on the patio and it measured 3/4 inch.

GOODNESS ! that is a lovely LAWN ..P-77 ? I just posted to scot and wondered if he had any results form his P77 project. Im going P77 from here out based on THOSE pix..!!!
check out my post and email me ! mscottw2 ! Hey man dont think that you are the only guy in Jax ! Im here now a rcent DC x-plant. I have SA in the front and a WILD hyrid in the backyard...last year I did a Sahara overseed but didnt water properly and I mixed some Centipede/Carpet combo. the cent. was from seed and plugs. The side of my house that is doing bad is going P-77 ! that is after a bag of spec. order LaPrima..its off to a GREAT start !
soo..nobody seems to know first hand about P-77 , seems to be a lot of speculation and research...Ill let you know how it goes ! Oh Im also growing apples, pears, plums ,bananas tomatoes, corn , peaches and of course citrus trees(houston3483@gmail.com)

Here is a link that might be useful: Jax Lax !

It's so funny to read how Floridians get so exited about bermuda grass... You can't blame them, really. St. Auguscrap is what 99% of the homes have as lawns...

I would be, too.

oh SA? man youve gotta babysit it ! the families that have moved and the homes for sale with little lawn care ...thier once pretty SA lawns are now non-existent..the yards are totally engulfed and overrun by weeds.
I have a pretty SA front yard and like to garden but i want a less demanding and pretty yard ...Im trying the P77 my last years Sahara experiment got mixed results..it grows tall seedheads that dont germinate..just look ragedy.

Is it getting too late for me to seed with P77? I'm in Dallas and we have about 8-10 weeks before the nights start getting cool.

Is it getting too late for me to seed with P77? I'm in Dallas and we have about 8-10 weeks before the nights start getting cool.

Punctuality isnÂt your greatest asset huh? :>)

Like if you would had thought about it when this thread was created almost 14 months ago you would have had plenty of time.

haha! My first thought was, what's wrong with my punctuation? (should that have been quoted?)

14 months ago I didn't even own the land. The latest post was in May so technically the thread isn't dead... now it's taken another breath :)

I suppose I could've started a new thread... but I would have probably labeled it Princess 77 anyway. At least this way I can keep looking at bshudson's lawn and daydream.

So, would you or wouldn't you? I've made my mind up to actually grow a lawn vs. buy it (sod). I figure either way I'll have to work it for it to look good, so I might as well say I did it all!

I've also been looking at Yukon and Riviera, they seem to be more cold tolerant for a late season planting?

Good luck finding any seed this time of year. Order now for next seaon.

Seed isn't the problem... so I guess 'order now for next season' is your only constructive advice?

www.johnstonseed.com has riviera in stock. Ed, at Johnston Seed, said they planted Aug-8 one year and it survived the winter (in Oklahoma). He said it is slower to establish, but if I stay on top of it (keeping it wet) I should have good luck.

Both Lowes and Home Depot carry P77 at any one of a hundred locations in the metroplex.

It is not only constructive advice, it is the best advice you can get because as you have noted, it is too late, and P77 is not a great choice for DFW area, Houston yes, Dallas no.

In Dallas the best time is mid May to early June when temps are warm enough, but more importantly when there is still some rain around to help with watering.

Right now it is blistering hot 100+ with no relief in sight, so just how would you keep a seed bed moist in these conditions? However lets say you did keep it moist and got the seed to germinate. The grass will not set very deep roots by first frost, and P77 does not like cold weather and needs deep roots to help protect itself. A good hard freeze which Dallas can get will kill P77, especially with shallow root system. P77 is best adapted to Z 9 to 12, you are 7.

Yes you may get lucky and get away with it. But if I were you I would look to see if you can get something other than P77 for next spring.

If you want to do something, wait a few weeks till it cools off a bit and rain returns, then plant Rye grass to have something green and covering the ground during the winter. Then jump on Bermuda planting next season.

Ok, I guess I got ahead of myself. The ground isn't even ready for johnson grass yet. I still have some high and low spots to work on. It'll give me more time to change my grass choice a couple dozen more times.

So if I wanted a lawn as pretty as bshudson's in the DFW area, which grass would you recommend? I've been out in this heat all summer moving dirt around so I don't mind putting in the time and effort to getting it looking awesome.

Going rye for the winter is probably a good idea... I think I read a pretty good write up on here about overseeding and killing the rye off to let the bermuda grow.

Tifway-1 or Tifway-2 is the most popular variety in your area, and will give that golf course fairway look if you provide the input. Another more expsensive variety available is Tifsport and Celebration.

There is not enough differnce between any of them that you can spot other than the price paid.

But keep in mind to get that look bshudson has requires a lot of work and a power reel type mower. So be careful what you ask for as it might be more than you can chew.

Try looking up Tri-Tex in Tioga just north of DFW.

Just a couple of more thoughts here. To get that golf course look, none of the common Bermudas are going to do that. Only the hybrids like Tifway can do that. Thought I should clear that up. FWIW sod can be laid anytime of year as long as the ground is not mud, frozen, or covered with snow/ice

Overseeding and a cover crop are two different things entirely. My suggestion for planting Rye this fall is with respect to a cover crop for erosion control and to have something green until you decide what permanent grass choice you make.

Using Rye as a cover doesnÂt really interfere with Bermuda you plant or sod next year if you go that route. All you would need to do is spray the Rye with RU a few days before you seed or sod.

So think about it for a while, then start a new thread with follow up questions.