Not needed.

I think if there is a consensus with respect to fruit spikes it is more likely to be that they are harmful than it is to be that they are helpful.

holy cow ! sure don't wanna hurt my trees.

did lots of research on fertilizing and have gotten lots of contradicting info.

are u all saying not to fertilize at all or just thru the medium of tree spikes ?

this 1st year i pruned my new trees back heavily to promote root growth. years 2 and 3 i planned to ferilize to promote wood and central leader height to get above the local wildlifes' browse level (except moose- lost cause).

of course i'm not interested in fruit the next few years and any generated will be removed.

haven't had my soil tested yet but am aware it is on the poor side in general.

thanks all !

Moose??? For reals??

NEAT!

As to your fertilization question, i'm afraid i can offer nothing in terms of the benefit of my experience, since i'm just starting out myself. However, your post is so relatable to me, because i'm astounded at the extent to which opinions will differ regarding planting and growing techniques. As you gather your information, do make sure you check with your local resources as well; i,e, nurseries, garden groups and what have you, since they'll be most familiar with your specific conditions.

I think a lot of us have been there, trying to sort out the often contradictory information.

Part of what leads to the confusion and contradictions is that there is often a lot of context missing from questions and advice.

For instance, Jellyman will say you don't need to fertilize fruit trees. If that's all you heard you probably are getting the complete picture because you'll learn from his other posts that he fertilizes the lawn around the trees and adds a very generous helping of horse manure as mulch.

Well, both of those things add nutrients that the trees use.

You also need to pay attention to the source of the advice. If it is geared toward commercial agriculture it will assume you are trying to mazimize yield and uniformity while minimizing labor input. It will also gear advice on spacing and such towards accomodating heavy equipment and large scale cultivation practices.

Often advice is specific to the area for which it was generated, making assumptions about soil composition, day length, climate, etc.

Are you doing a routing spraying regime for disease and insects? Are you trying to raise fruit organically? Advice will be very different between the two.

Do you get adequate rainfall? Will you irrigate? Are there animal pests that you need to keep out?

Do you require perfectly unblemished fruit? Do you prefer a harvest that is spread out over time, or do you need to collect the fruit all at once?

Are you able to actively monitor the trees and respond when they have problems, or do you expect them to pretty much make it on their own?

Do you want to get fruit absolutely as soon as possible, or are you willing to wait longer for a "better" shaped tree that will live longer or be healthier, or perhaps be more aesthetically appealing to you?

These are just a few of the many many factors that might influence the anwer to a particular question that is best for your own orchard.

So should you fertilize? I don't know. I suspect it will make your tree grow faster. It will put on more lush growth. If you are going to fertilize you need to ensure that the tree gets enough water to go along with it. You'll probably want to make sure you don't stimulate it to keep growing into the period it should be hardening off for its dormant season. If you encourage rapid growth you may make the tree more attractive to some diseases and insect pests.

If you supply too much of some nutrients they can disrupt the absorbtion of other necessary ones. That's one of the reasons people often stress the desireability of a soil test.

If you want a simple answer that isn't just "yes" or "no" I'd say that for each type of tree, age, and growing environment there is a range of growth per year that is optimum. If your trees look healthy and are growing within that range, you don't need fertilizer.

If they don't, or aren't, fertilizing might be part of the solution. In either case, tree...

It was said:
"So should you fertilize? I don't know. I suspect it will make your tree grow faster."

But such leafy growth is at the expense of developing a sturdy root system. Not a good thing.

Further, home garden trees seldom need supplemental fertilizer unless grown on sandy soil. Only a professional soil test will know for certain as to what, if any, supplemental ferts are needed..

Wildlifeman:

Murky is correct that I do not favor use of high-nitrogen fruit tree spikes in most soils and conditions. My own soil was very poor 25 years ago, but I have built it up around the trees with stable manure, and, as murky says, the trees receive some chemical fertilizer when I do the lawn with 10-10-10.

But I don't know what kind of soil situation you might be facing in NE Washington, and I hesitate to give you a yes or no answer when your soil might be so poor that supplemental nitrogen could actually help in the short term. I try to keep my trees growing slowly but steadily, and with the soil improvements I have made, the difficulty now is keeping growth under control.

I have never done soil testing here. I just keep building, which is not very scientific, but has resulted in very healthy trees. Unless your soil is really very poor, and the growth of your trees spindly, I would tend to favor mulching as a long-term strategy. It may be overkill, but I tend to mulch everything that sits still for more than 5 minutes. This is mulching season for me, and I take the pickup to the horse farm, load up, and put it everywhere. Last winter I got 34 pickup loads, but may not make that number this season. It is a lot of physical work, and the older I get the harder it becomes.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

You're making me feel better, Jellyman. I thought my manure obsession was unique. I can't sleep at night knowing there's some unclaimed manure within five miles.

fruithack:

I live exactly one mile from a horse boarding/riding academy with over 200 horses. I couldn't possibly keep up with their production unless I hauled a half-dozen loads a day, which is way beyond my capacity. These days, two loads (about 1600 pounds each), and I am exhausted. Once, when I was much younger, I hauled 8 loads in one day using a full-size GMC pickup, working dawn to dusk, but never came close to that record again. Now I use a '93 Toyota T-100, also with a full size bed. It holds a lot, and I mound it up until it starts to fall off the sides. I still load by hand with a pitchfork, and unload in a wheelbarrow with a pitchfork and scoop shovel. A couple of times I hopped on their loader and used that, but they asked me to stop because I am not covered by their insurance. I would compare loading a pickup of manure with a day at the spa lifing weights. It amounts to the same thing.

So don't worry fruithack. There is always somebody out there who is crazier than you are.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

/blink blink

But i thought fresh manure was a "no-no," no?

estreya:

When I apply stable manure, whether around the trees, side beds, or the main garden, it always goes on the surface, where moisture and the availability of oxygen enables it to break down fairly quickly. Around the trees, or around fruits like blackberries and raspberries, I never disturb it, just add more layers, allowing it to break down at its own pace. In the main garden, I never turn it into the soil until it is almost completely decomposed.

Horse manure is fairly low in nitrogen -- around 5% or less, but has lots of trace elements and minerals. My overall objective is not to fertilize, but to build up humus in my originally humus-poor soil. At least 70% of stable manure consists of the wood chips used in the stalls, although I try to nail as many horse apples as I can. The wood chips are quite fine, and break down in less than a year.

You might have to be more cautious using something like fresh chicken manure (more than 20% nitrogen), but even then, keeping it on the surface until it has a chance to decompose renders it harmless to most trees and plants. And of course I would never put anything very high in nitrogen around any of the fruit trees, whether natural or chemical.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Jellyman, this is fantastic news! I was clearly operating on yet another misconception, or perhaps just a lack of fuller understanding. I have stables all around me here, and will now contact them to see if they'd be willing to part with a trunk or three of manure ...

What's the most delicate way to ask for free poop, i wonder?

:)

estreya,

Try Craig's list for manure if you don't already have contacts. There are half a dozen people who periodically post that they have free horse manure available. Some will even load it for you for free or a few dollars.

I think they tend to post in the Spring but probably have it available year round.

Since I don't have my own truck I'm arranging to have a load full delivered to me for $40. Considering the amount of work and time involved the last time I borrowed my brother-in-law's truck to haul some, I consider that price worth it.

I completely agree, Murky. Thank you for the suggestion!

You might also try Freecycle.org for horse manure. That's where I scored!

I started collecting horse manure after seeing Jellyman's yard. But instead of spreading it around, I decided to leave it in a pile to hot compost it. It was heating up pretty good until I mixed in a bale of straw. Now I feel like I screwed the pooch.

If I can't get the manure to heat up again, I think I'm just going to start spreading it around my trees and in my garden. Once, it's out, I'll get another pile to try and compost down.

BTW, if your going to shovel horse manure, get yourself a pitchfork. I started with a shovel and it's almost impossible compared to a pitchfork.

Don, I can't believe you're loading your pickup by hand.

Hey, thanks for the tip, Crabjoe! Of course, if i get a pitchfork, i'll have to get a pair of overalls. And if i get a pair of overalls, i'll have to get a truck. And if i get a truck, i'll have to get a dawg. And then suddenly, free manure isn't so free anymore! :)

thanks all for the advice and your opionions !

my plan was to only fertilize on the light side in early spring as it becomes hot and dry pretty quick here.

i shall be mulching with cow and/or horse manure.

i may do a little experimenting as i have 2 of some varieties planted side by side. say fertilize 1 lightly and forego the other and see what happens.

jean001 i have saw your point made several times in my research and it does make commom sense. however , a strong root system won't do much good for a tree that has been eaten or broken to ground level.

while making my rounds yesterday the bears are still breaking limbs to get my plums ( they are super sweet now) so i decided to shake the trees and put the plums on the ground for the most part. they have gotten them at a height greater than i can reach from the ground.

one of my new apple trees was missing the fencing i put around it. the stakes were pulled up and i couldnt find it anywhere. i figured a deer had got its head stuck in the fence nibbling whats left of the leaves. fortunately i related this to the gent who owns the property next to me and he must have found the fencing on his place as i found it later returned. it was rather heavy fence but it was in shambles. i will speak with him later to get the story , but at least we dont have a deer wearing fencing.

the wildlife is sure a problem and am learning how to deal with them and thats the purpose of trying to get the trees above the browse line and make wood.

Jellyman- Having worked many years ago applying motion-study to construction systems, my opinion is that handling manure twice (i.e. shoveling in, shoveling out) is the most inefficient part of the manure deployment cycle. I shovel into plastic trash cans, wheel them into the truck, wheel them out and dump where needed. Well, actually I'm more devious than that: I get the ranch to load it into the cans I supply, in return for my removal service. I drop off 10 empty cans each pickup. They're loaded and waiting a week or two later. Helps for the manure to be located on the way back from town.