Question: what can I do to prevent dandilions from growing in my KBG lawn?

1. Don't let the seeds germinate. They need continual water to do that so don't water more frequently than once a week and the seeds cannot germinate.

2. Don't let any germinated seeds take root. If you set your mower at the highest mowing height, the tall grass will shade out any seedlings and keep them from photosynthesizing enough sugar to take root.

Believe it or not you can have a weed free lawn in the middle of a pasture of weeds if you follow rules 1 and 2. Your neighbor's weed patch is no excuse for you not having a picture perfect lawn without using any chemicals.

If you get a dandelion or two, visit your local garden supply or box store and get a Weed Hound tool for $20. Search GardenWeb for the rave reviews. Everyone loves that tool.

Don't let your neighbor's weed issues force
you into chemicals. If you keep your grass
high, well fed, and vigorous there is no
reason to expect substantial germination
in your yard. Weed seeds need the same kind
of soil/seed contact that any other seed does
and a thick turf wont allow it. I get thousands
of weed seeds drifting into my yard from my
neighbors and I pull maybe two or three dandelions
a year.

I think that the above advice is dead on based on my experience.

-Deerslayer

I have to laugh about what is happening with our "weedy neighbors" now that they've bought or are borrowing a mower.

The field of screams is being cut short & they're watering sometimes every day & night. They didn't mow, but watered the same way when they moved in last summer, which I think is why they have a weed farm.

Should I break the news to them now or just let them figure it out on their own?

The advice here is correct, theoretically....

In reality, this is not the case. It is dreaming to "have a weed free lawn in the middle of a pasture of weeds if you follow rules 1 and 2."

Since the poster has KBG, it must be in the North. By spring time, the turf is not very strong and dense yet. With that many seeds, some of them will penetrate into the weak spots and take roots. Then they are going to stay and reproduce......

Good mowing practice is a MUST, but you need to be pro-active. Pre-e should be considered if you do not want to worry about the seeds all the time. Or you can take a chance, and kill any post-E weeds before they get settled.

This is based on my experience. In our neighborhood, average lot size is 2 acres. So very few have the 100% perfect lawn. If hundreds of seeds take root, it is a nightmare to kill them. The neighbors near the public land, they all have yards taken care of by the professionals. They do not have time to pull the roots.

So it depends on the situation.....

Achang 89,

No one has offered the dream of a "weed free" lawn.
The advice we have offered, which is absolutely
correct in every respect, is that if you have a
thick turf and mow high you will get very very
few weeds germinating in your yard regardless of
what is going on in adjoining properties. And if
in reality you're only dealing with the prospect
of a realitively few weeds then maybe its not worth
the time and expense of using chemicals.

Said before and I'll say it again. My neighbors on
all sides have weed issues of every stripe
and every year I spend less time pulling the few in
my yard than it would take me to drive to Lowes and
apply a weed killer. That aint' dreamin.

I also don't think anyone who has so many (hundreds or maybe thousands of) mature weed seed heads should be mowing without an attached bag. Though mulching is great for GRASS. They're just pushing those ripe seeds into the "lawn" to take over next year! This is exactly what my neighbors do. LOL

decklap, you do not get a thick or dense lawn over-night, not even with new sods. To get to that kind of weed-proof mature lawn, it takes several years. During these several years, you'll have to battle the weeds day and night.....

Let's face the reality, many of (or most of) the people do not have the thick mature lawn. So the advice here does not work with everyone.

Achang89 you're right that a thick turf doesn't happen
overnight but it certainly doesn't take "several years"
if you're willing to tend to the soil first. Chemicals
might make the homeowner feel better in the short term but
they're only masking a larger issue. If you don't have
thick turf that can outcompete weeds then you don't have
a grass issue you have a soil issue and it doesn't take
"several years" to address. Get a soil test and ammend
accordingly. You'll be shocked how quickly your lawn
responds.

In two seasons I took my property from less than %40 grass
coverage to highly weed resistant with nothing more than
seed and organic soil ammendments. If I can do it
anybody can if they're so inclined. Nature works.

decklap, how large is your lawn, and how much $$ and time you spent over the two years?

I'll be very interested in your magic with "In two seasons I took my property from less than %40 grass coverage to highly weed resistant with nothing more than seed and organic soil ammendments. If I can do it anybody can if they're so inclined. Nature works."

As you indicated, you used nothing but seeds and compost....

Achang89 I didn't keep a running total of
either time or money spent so I can only
characterize both as manageable and I don't
have either in any more excess than anyone
else. I caught a break in that I didn't have
a PH issue which would've extended my timeline
but on the whole adding that amount of lime
wouldn't have been more work than I was willing
to put in. Im not saying it was free or simple
but in the aggregate there is no question in my
mind that the effort up front has paid dividends.

The area of my lawn that I dealt with is just over
4500sq ft. which is average for my area. Bigger lawn
would've been a bigger job but the concepts remain
the same.

My turn to ask you a question. Where have you gotten
the idea that it takes plants "several years" to display
the benefits of growing in fertile soil? Organic growers
farming plots of many acres aren't waiting years to
see marked improvements in their soil fertility and
yields. Lawns are no different in that respect.
When appropriate levels of non-soluble nutrients are
available in the soil plants respond very quickly. Thats
science, not magic.

decklap, this is what I figured, 4,500 SFs and probably irrigated. You can certainly OVER seed and build a thick lawn easily.

But how about a 2 acre lawn area (87,000 SFs, 20 times your size), not watered, new builder's lawn without any top soil? How long and how much $ does it take to build a thick lawn? This is what I'm saying that it takes at least several years to get a good lawn. We all know what will happen with all the weed seeds.....

The point I'm trying to make is that, the answer depends on the OP's situation. And do not assume everyone has a lawn like yours.

Sure, I'll agree. The *answer* is going to
be what suits the property owner but lets not
pretend that people don't have choices. Yours
is one way and mine is another. Both have upsides
and downs. But if its "different strokes for different
folks" that you're peddlin' why are you so enamored
with the chemicals? Thats a one size fits all solution
if ever there was one.

The facts remain. It isn't "magic" or "dreaming" to
suggest that improving soil fertility can drastically
improve plant performance in a *relatively* short
period of time to the extent that weed germination
isn't much of an issue in a lawn. I don't know
why thats such an irksome thing to say. If people
want to go that route great. If not, great. Its
up to them. But its still the truth either way.

And BTW Im not irrigated.

decklap, where do you see I'm "enamored" by chemicals??

All I'm trying to say is that your advice is correct, only theoretically, but not pratically. It may not work for many people.....

For a small size lawn, I can pick up bags of compost from Home Depot and improve the soil over-night. I can also pick off any post-e weeds in 10 minutes. Then you have options on organic, etc..... many options.

But with the 2 AC lawn I mentioned, it is an enormous job to truck in compost, spread it to improve the soil. How much will it cost to have an organic program? When you spend your time and $$ improving the soil, the dandelions and other weeds already run you over.

Everyone has to link goals, means and outcomes together to decide on the most efficient and practically way. There is no one-shoe fit all....

I strongly agree with decklap. The first full season on my new lawn I spent a few hours pulling broad leaf weeds by hand. After that I have never had to use a weed contol with my fertilizer because my 1/2 acre lawn is so thick. Only once or twice I had to spot spray for clover which is near impossible to pull by hand. My lawn is 10 years old now and every year I may get one or two dandelions by the roadside that I pull by hand if the snowplow strayed a bit over the winter. The neighbors across the street don't care too much for their lawn so there are a lot of weed seeds in the area. I manually water my lawn with a sprinkler when needed.

jdgt225innh, you strongly agree with what???

How comes no one answers my questions on caring any neglected new 2-3 acre lawn without any top soil??

Everyone wants to take over a 10-year old lawn, as good as berber carpet....

So what is the answer to care for an imperfect lawn?!

achang89

while i am very sympathetic with your 2 acre lawn -- i myself had over 1 acre -- i had to agree that lawn responds quite well to good maintenance.

i went from the worst lawn in the neighborhood to the top 10% in 1 year by cutting high (i cut at the highest setting starting from first cut in spring, about 4.5 inch), using effective pre-emergence (Dimension), aerating, and overseeding in ONE season.

i do not use any compost either and do not water. i just let the lawn goes to dormancy in the hot summer. with mulch mowing and some good fescue/kbg mix, the lawn is self-repairing. the fall rain greens things up very quickly. in the fall, mowing in some leaves before collecting more for the garden compost pile. i still had quite a bit of weeds, but they are being smoldered by good grass over time. i spot spray some dandelions, but it is manageable.

keep up your faith. keep on mowing high as if the weeds are not there. you will be suprised. if your soil is really poor, a quick fix is to get a coupe of tons of oceangro (google it) delivered this fall and put them down. it will really make a difference for you next year. the risk is not huge if you do not do a high dose all the time.

one more thing i learned: the best way to keep grass nice is to grow less of them. i am changing some of my backyard lawn to fruit tree orchard this spring. i also get free truckload of hardwood mulch from tree trimming companies and mulch extensively along my mature trees instead trying to grow grass all the way to tree trunk.

the cost could be manageable if you take a practical approach. a light spring Urea will not hurt much (19-0-7 with Dimension 0.15 from HD is all that i used this pring, which also puts down 0.5 lb of N). in early fall, put down some soybean meal ($9-10/50 lb from our local agway), at a high dose (say 15-20 lb per 1k sf), to add some organic material to the soil. a quick N to finish up the year in late fall. my costs are about $5-600 per year. you might need to double it. it is still not too bad relative to a professional management. a spot sray treatment here and there in fall and spring will not do too much harm to the lawn either.

for the very hard to kill ones, like clover or violet, i leave them alone and accept them as part of the lawn and try to encourage my good grass to out-compete them.

there are lots of knowledgeable folks here that i really respect. so calm down and listen and learn. you might not be able to get their stage in one shot, but i believe what they have to offer is correct and for the long run. it will reduce your effort eventually. just read and keep good notes/bookmarks

bes of luck.
njrookie

I believe I've made it clear several times that this is not the place for theory, but practical advice. It is not true that "mowing high" will solve everyone's weed problem, or everyone should have a chemical-free, or organic lawn, etc....

I've maintained several properties, small or large, cold or warm seasons. What I can tell is that each one would need special care, not one formula..... I'm saying it again.....

achang89,

To answer your first question:
I agree with this statement from decklap-
"Don't let your neighbor's weed issues force
you into chemicals. If you keep your grass
high, well fed, and vigorous there is no
reason to expect substantial germination
in your yard. Weed seeds need the same kind
of soil/seed contact that any other seed does
and a thick turf wont allow it. I get thousands
of weed seeds drifting into my yard from my
neighbors and I pull maybe two or three dandelions
a year."

I agree with this because it holds true with what I have seen with my lawn.

Answer to your second question:
I could grow grass in sand if I wanted to. I've actually had some grass growing in asphalt. However, in order for the grass to thrive I would need to water it a number of times each day because sand does not hold water well and I would have to fertilize more often because sand holds/produces little nutrients.

Start with adding some top soil. If you know there is no top soil, and we all know grass does much better in nice top soil, then that would be a good start.

And to answer you third question:
Every situation is different. Provide the issues and we here will try to give you advice, which for the most part comes from theory and personal experiences.

I detect you are trying to make a point, in which are correct in what you say. But if you really do need specific advice on certain situations you have then we will be glad to assist.

jdgt225innh, grow your grass in sand and your asphalt. I guess you need a lot of advice, particularly on the mental side.....

"jdgt225innh, grow your grass in sand and your asphalt. I guess you need a lot of advice, particularly on the mental side....."

That was completely uncalled for. There's no reason for all the personal attacks. Taking a couple of comments out of context and using them to personally attack somebody is a pretty cheap way to avoid addressing the point(s) made by that person.

In logic classes, Ad hominem arguments are considered fallacies, and are considered to be signs that the person making the argument is falling back on an ad hominem attack because he or she is unable to address the point(s) made by the other person. When I see somebody resort to an ad hominem attack, I consider it a sign of arguing from weakness.

I also think ad hominem attacks are a violation of the TOS here at GW. If you're going to attack people, and they complain using the contact us link, you shouldn't be too surprised at the results.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wikipedia on ad hominem

It is time to put this thread to rest.

There are always two sides of the story. People's opinion can differ and people should respect different opinion.

jdgt225innh, some of yours words/answer are off the topics.

achang89, no need to over-react.

bpgreen, you not helping to cool down the situation.

Cheers and we move on......

OP,

If your yard is under 5000sq ft I think the Weed Hound is the way to go. You will be amazed how quickly you can go through even a larger yard with one of these. No bending over, just carry a bucket in your belt, wear a padded glove on one hand (for releasing the weed, I find you will bruise pretty quickly if your soil is compact). I have ~3000sq ft yard and can go over it in about 5 minutes. I spend 1-2 minutes each day when I get home from work just walking my yard looking for the mature yellow flower, walk over to it, and yank it. I did this for about 2 weeks (up until last week, and I live in SE PA) and now can't even find a dandelion in my yard.

You most likely will get an outbreak of the dandelions from the other yards, but as mentioned, unless its a LARGE yard, or has many bare spots that would be prone to weeds, it will be a week or two of weeding, and then much less. Dandelions are so nice as weeds (more then any other weed IMO) due to their center root structure that makes them so easy to remove. If only clover/chickpea was as easy I wouldn't have any of that in my yard!

Goodluck, and everyone relax, this is a gardening/lawn forum!