Several things are at play here. Unfortunately Octobor planting for KBG is late in the season. There just wasn't enough time for it to germinate and grow enough to survive winter real well. You did't mention starter fertilizer. Lawns require most of the year's fertilization in the fall. To make matters worse, your spring application of Tupersan inhibited germination of your spring planting as it is a pre-emergant seed killer (weeds and grass). It also inhibited any leftover seeds from your fall planting from germinating and may have affected growth of your new seedlings. All is not lost however. Wherever you have green grass surviving, even if it is very short and laying close to the ground, you will have a lawn in those areas. What should you do now ? Not sure, but I think you should reduce your watering to twice a week for several weeks, put down a mild fertilizer (milorganite perhaps). Keep foot traffic off you lawn, plant some schrubs and flowers and hope for the best for your lawn. Good luck with your new home, gardens and lawn.

My understanding is the Tupersan is specifically designed to permit seeding (the only preemergent that can be used while seeding). It was part of a starter fertilizer combo from Pennington (a "crabgrass preventer for seeding" product). I hope that's not the problem.

I guess my biggest question is how long should I wait for the new seeds to germinate before realizing they never will. Might it just take another 5-10 days, especially if early spring was so cold?

My mistake about the Tupersan. You are correct. No harm done. Fescue germinates well before KBG, thus a few seedlings will emerge before the darker green blades of KBG. Colder weather definately delays germanation and sometimes it seems to take forever (6 weeks would not be unusual) for it to come in. 26 days is just not enough time considering your soil temps. Be patient and continue your watering schedual. The fact that your neighbor's lawns are up and growing suggests that they planted a faster growing variety. I think yours may look better by the fourth of July. A suggestion: Try to get some organic material into your soil. Once your lawn is growing, spread a thin layer of compost as a top dressing. Mulch your clippings into your lawn. And if you have leaves in the fall, mulch them in as well. Continue to read posts from this forum and stay involved with your lawn. Consider organic fertilizer and weed control. Good luck,

Last year even late October was not too late to seed. I live in NJ and did some KGB overseeding in late October. Since the weather was very mild it came up well and easily survived the winter.

It may be that you have a problem with compaction and soil chemistry. Have a soil test done now. It may help determine why your seed did not germinate. At worst it will tell you what you need to do this fall if you have to reseed.

Capt Tom

crouch-

If you believe your soil is compacted, you should consider aerating as part of your late summer/early fall lawn care program. Try sticking a long (6" or so) screwdriver into your soil. If it is tough to get it in to the handle, you may well have a compaction issue.

Not sure where in Jersey you are, but right around Labor Day is when I get into aerating/overseeding activities in CT. Cold overnight temps, shorter days, and an abundance of maple leaves makes October much too late around here for a high success rate with kbg overseeding. I was absolutely blown away with the results of my efforts last fall, which I moved up to Sept 2-4 (I know everyone says "fall overseeding," but "late summer" would be more precise). Of course I'd love to pat myself on the back as some sort of lawn guru, but the truth is we had pleasant days, not too cool nights, regular rain, etc. right into Thanksgiving!

With crabgrass dying with the first good frost, I may not automatically reach for the roundup. I have found that cutting my existing crabgrass/lawn as short as possible and bagging/raking the clippings allows me to seed immediately without the use of roundup. If timed properly, the desirable seed germinates and gets strong enough in the fall so I can apply a pre-m in the spring to prevent the crabgrass seed from germinating.

I wouldn't necessarily give up on it this year, but I can't expect you will get optimal results at this point either. I would heed billhill's advice about organic material and watering. KBG is a notorious slow germinator. I would also seriously consider having a soil test done.

I understand you wanting to be able to mentally turn the corner on this one way or another and nobody likes to see their hard work go unrewarded. Maybe adjust expectations downward and hope to be pleasantly surprised now. Armed with the knowledge you can gain on this board, this may well be the last spring you need to endure lawn envy.