Hi Bruce, Thanks for all the suggestions! The right varieties of Avocados can grow here--you do see a lot fewer than in Southern California and I gather that fruit production can be a lot less reliable. Actually a guy was just telling me Saturday that there used to be a commercial orchard nearby (but closer to the Bay, so less frost). I haven't been able to confirm this. What I did find are articles about Avocado trees on the Stanford campus (they are about 12 miles away, with essentially identical climate). Obviously they have survived our coldest winters: http://trees.stanford.edu/ (follow link for fruit trees) "As one approaches the Inner Quad from Serra Mall, there is a shady grove left of Memorial Court with a grove of noble avocado trees known to generations of alumni. The ripe avocados that may be found from time to time often attract enterprising harvesters and with luck one may find windfalls. The sheltered courtyard situation has enabled the trees to thrive with occasional signs of frostbite on the glossy oval leaves, up to 10 by 4 inches in size. Two of the trees are thought to be 'Fuerte'; the others are Guatemalan." The trees I found in the nursery are expensive and I didn't find anything that looked like a dwarf except for the 'Don Gilogly' variety which has been pretty thoroughly trashed on forums like this. I looked for pomegranates with minimal seeds (I believe they exist...) and didn't find anything. I find it too much trouble to deal with inedible ones. There's one big difference between the deep South and California (besides moisture and summer heat) which can affect hardiness significantly. The warmer parts of the South are often a lot warmer on average at night (and day) than equivalent USDA zones in California. For example, Orlando on January 31 st: 72 F/ 50 F. San Jose: 58 F/ 40 F. I believe both are 9b. The plants in San Jose have experienced a lot of temps in the 30s all winter--yet frosts are rare. Occasionally it will dip below 32 for just a couple hours than right back up again. In Florida, of course, it tend to get cold when a huge cold front plunges South, and I think (?) temperatures can stay colder for longer. So although they technically get just as cold, some plants can adapt to gradual change (and constant colder temps), whereas some enjoy generally higher temps, yet the sudden change may do them in. Now how this applies to individual plants--citrus, avocado, etc. I don't have a clue. Certainly if one has sheltered locations, is willing to work at it, or has a source of cheap plants it's worth experimenting. Cheap plants: something I should have added--our local nursery is celebrating 60 years and having all sorts of unbelievable specials. On Saturday it was 60% of any one item (absolutely anything--say you had your eye on a $1500 fountain--now $600). I was in fact a bit boring and bought a Key (aka Mexican) Lime. I've always heard it's too cold here, the nursery says they're fine, but it's best to protect them when it gets particularly cold. It's a $16 experiment (usually $40) so even if it dies, no big loss. Our Bearss lime is about 10 years old and has never borne too much (it seems to be picking up this year). As far as I know it's never been seriously frost damaged. We replaced an old (yet small and very productive) Myer lemon here 2 or 3 years ago (it died). The new plant hasn't fruited heavily yet, although it did bloom heavily a few months ago. These bushes/trees perform so well here that it should soon. The 14th of next month is the nursery's day for 60% off all 2 gallon Bearss limes and Myer lemons. This day is a bit less flexible than the original anything goes 60% off day, and it will be hard to resist yet another Myer Lemon at $12 (normally $30). However...it turns out that a third spot just opened up (a bush just died). And the nursery is having another 60% off any one item at the end of its 60 day celebration (specials every day--I find it hard to imagine they're not going broke). So looks like I'll be buying something else--if not a tree, things like fertilizer and soil, peat, etc. will always be used. I like the suggestion of a peach tree. We used to have this miniature one about 10 feet from those spots where citrus are--it couldn't have been more than 3 feet tall. It bore extremely heavily every year. This is a suburban neighborhood, and the squirrels were gone initially. They are back in full force and I understand they love peaches. I mentioned that I have some rooted fig cuttings. This is a great fig growing area with no rain from May through September. I'm going to put one of those in the ground in the 3rd spot. It's an LSU purple, which comes heavily recommended as a vigorous plant with great fruit. It's generally grown in the South, but apparently most all figs are great here. It also has properties that should work well for a plant that will need to be heavily pruned--only a small breba crop (fruits off the previous year's wood) plus it's supposed to bear heavily off of new wood--I understand that people in colder climates whose trees have frozen back to the ground can get fruit. The cutting is smaller and younger than is ideal to put in the ground, but since I have two others I'm giving it a shot. So my remaining question is: what to buy at a nursery sale where I can pick any one item--anything--for 60% off? For anyone who has read through this incredibly long post--what would you buy?

Tracy, I think you'll find plenty of information and opinions in the threads shown in the link below. It's the results from searching for 'dwarf spacing' in this forum (which should cover dwarf and semi-dwarf varieties). As you'll see, a big factor in spacing will be pruning. The cedars may present a problem from CAR (cedar apple rust). Since I'm not familiar with the prevalence of this disease in your area (and can't even tell where you live because you didn't include that info with your zone info or on your member page) , you might want to contact your local ag extension service for more locally-relevant information on that. If you want to supply your location, you might be able to get more information about CAR here, from someone close to your area. You may also want to do a search from pruning techniques. You'll find numerous threads on the topic (maybe to the point of overload). Once you've done a little studying on that, come back and ask questions to clear up any concerns you still have. I wish we had one single, really thorough thread about pruning, but unfortunately the information is pretty scattered. Finally, have you researched varieties that will do well in your area? That may be a "can of worms". If not, your local extension agent might be able to give you some initial ideas on that too, but you'll definitely want to supplement his/her recommendations with your own research. Here is a link that might be useful: Search for 'dwarf spacing'

i would not call that a 'yard' .. i would call that utility access ... and if i understand the map.. this connect one driveway with another from the alley ??? why is/are the a/c on the sidewalk ... is that permanent??? i dont understand this part: The wall is on our property but the top of the wall is our neighbors i see some patio stone.. to go around the a/c?? ,,, is the rest of the walkway poured.. or is that also block that can be moved??? thinking outside the box.. if possible.. you could make a much wider usable bed.. if the walkway was moved to the house.. to to the wall ... arbors.. strategically placed.. can aid as exterior window covering ... i am not TX expert.. but morning glory.. clematis.. autumn flower clematis [better be a stout arbor.. lol ..] ... all could be trained to provide a vertical screen.. with little or no footprint ... frankly.. i can think of no 'tree' that would work ... as i do not like planting things that i have to trim.. 2 or 3 times per year ... ken

nancy: I am totally unable to provide any insight on successfully growing fruits in Kansas. I can give you some advise on apples. With apples you can find a lot of different rootstocks. I hate the terms dwarf and semi-dwarf because the range of size control offered by many different rootstocks varies greatly. You will find that all "dwarf" rootstocks for apples are very poor and shallow rooting. They will require irrigation as needed and they will require to be staked for support for the life of the tree. Many "semi-dwarf" apple rootstocks will be ok free-standing and can get by without irrigation. M27.....called the patio dwarf. Apples get 5' maximum. Can runt out at 3' if you do not remove all fruit formed until tree gets taller. M26....Trees can grow 8'-12' tall depending on variety. Can be prone to fireblight. Bud-9...Trees get 8'-10' tall unless kept shorter by pruning. M9337 (Nick 29)....Similar in size to Bud 9 eventually but faster growing. Apple trees can be purchased on all these rootstocks if you do some searching on mail order sites. Avoid the sites that sell "dwarf" or "semi-dwarf" apple trees yet do not tell you what the rootstock is. Many will offer a variety on a multiple selection of rootstocks. In my home orchard I have apples on various rootstocks based on what was available when I bought them. Some of my trees are 5' tall x 7' wide and others are 15' tall. Lots of different choices of height controlling rootstocks are available for apple trees. Commercial orchards in my area are now all growing apples on wire (tall spindle) and planting them 3'-4' apart on M9337 or Bud 9 rootstock. I would think if you choose a variety that grows well under your climatic conditions you should be able to find a rootstock that will work well for your situation. Just be sure to stake the tree and provide irrigation as needed.