Help with organic lawn care

13 years ago

Hello there-

We have been using an organic lawn care program for the last 3 years. We have seen decent results, and from a peace of mind aspect, we are very happy (pets, kids, environment), but feel like we need help with two big issues.

We continue to see a fair amount of crab grass. I know that someone had said to me awhile back that if you are going to try to control crab grass, it needs to be before the forsythia blooms. I think I have about 1 to 2 weeks.

We compost and put a fresh batch on the lawn last fall. It was a tough winter for us (lots of snow), but the grass is beginning to be green. There are a lot of bare spots in the back yard lawn, and the front is pretty full, with some bare spots, likely due to some grubs.

WE had a soil test. Not sure what results you would like but this is them:

soil ph 7.1

buffer ph 7.0

nitrogen = 16

organic matter: 9.9%

phosphorus 23

potassium 162

calcium 2493

magnesium 389

lots of other numbers, let me know if you need those.

We try to water once a week in the summer, but haven't watered at all yet, and won't for awhile.

We need to seed again (we also laid seed in fall). We have mixture of KBG and tall fescue.

We need help with the following two items:

We have grubs in the front. We tried Milky spore for 2 years, and still have noticable patches. Should be try the nematodes?

We have a lot of crabgrass in the back (and also in the vegetable garden). Is there anyting I should do to try to prevent the seeds? Corn Gluten?

I have been using the "Organica" line of fertilizer for the last 3 years.

Any advice would be wonderful!!!

Thank you in advance.

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Comments (5)

bpgreen
13 years ago
You might get more responses if you post in the Organic Lawncare Forum

You can buy organic fertilizer, but a lot of organic lawns are fertilized with what would normally be considered animal feed, such as cracked corn, soybean meal, alfalfa, etc. I used to get coffee grounds from Starbucks and spread them (now I have native grasses and don't fertilize at all).

I don't know anything about grubs, so I can't help there.

The only organic pre-emergent that I know of is CGM. I've read mixed reviews of its effectiveness. From everything I've read, you need to make sure you use it correctly. I think it has to be watered in well and then it requires a dry spell because it works by drying the newly germinated grass before it can develop roots. If it rains at the wrong time, it won't work. Also, I've read that it takes a number of years for its effectiveness to start showing.

You may get better results just through cultural practices. Mow at about 4 inches (or at the highest setting if the mower won't go that high). Water deeply and infrequently (shallow frequent water helps seeds germinate). Apply fertilizer in the spring and fall, with most of it in the fall. If you can get a dense grass cover, the crabgrass won't stand a chance.
nearandwest
13 years ago
@ bpgreen:

Your last sentence says it all. The best crabgrass preventer is a thick, dense cover of turf.
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Also for watering: the soil looks too dry too soon currently. Mine, too--and I have no real problems. The very top surface of the soil dries out really fast in sun and wind, but that doesn't mean there isn't water underneath. You can test that by pushing a screwdriver into the soil. If it goes in fairly easily (barring rocks), your soil is damp. Or drive a small trowel into it and separate it into a V shape by rocking it a little bit. That'll give you a direct visual on how deep the water is. Here would be my plan: for now do very frequent waterings to help really wet the soil, I'm not familiar with California (except for the part about moderate temperatures and no rain), but this doesn't sound like a good idea--it encourages shallow roots and lawn diseases. The standard is 1" of water a week, all at once (well, within a day to allow for on/off cycles to allow the water to penetrate). For sandy soil your mileage will differ because the water wicks out fast and goes very deep very quickly. I will also probably try milorganite as a jump start, as I fear my soil is probably pretty depleted. I swear by it, others don't (it is processed sewage, but heated enough to kill everything in it). The 18 lbs/thousand square feet I put down last weekend kicked in and it's a rainy week. The grass, since Sunday, has grown one and a half inches and gone a deeper green. Once it stops raining, I'll mow. I went high, but I'm going to renovate this fall--with a deep, heavy core aeration I want lots of organics mixing into the holes. I alternate it with alfalfa and soy. When I started (early last year), my soil profile was slightly silty clay, poor drainage, very poor water penetration, hard as a rock, and a light tan. It had been corn field for as long as I could remember prior to building, and even my parents don't remember when it wasn't. Call it 40 years of abuse. Now it's still slightly silty clay (nothing's going to change that short of a renovation down to a foot or more). Drainage is fair to good, penetration is good to excellent, the soil is still hard when dry (it's supposed to be), but spongy when wet. The top half-inch is black, another inch is deep brown, and a good three inches below that have turned a midrange brown. Everything grows better and more strongly. I'm very pleased. Some older photos are here. I have to update them--the grass has improved since these were taken and the season advanced a bit.
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I disagree. Compost is not fertilizer at all. It is depleted fertilizer. The stuff that went into making the compost was fertilizer back then, but now that it is finished compost, it has been fully decomposed. The fertilizer value, compared to real organic fertilizer, is nill. Back in the 1930s, J.I. Rodale proposed the idea that compost was the gold standard for organic gardening. That idea persisted until the 1990s when DNA testing on the soil revealed the true nature of soil. Prior to that testing, botanists had been able to grow about 12 different soil based fungi and bacteria in the laboratory. They figured there more than that actually in the soil and proposed that there would be as many as 50 different microbes. The first DNA testing revealed there were 30,000 to 35,000 different microbes. Subsequent testing in the 2000s revealed upwards of 100,000 different species of soil microbes. These are the guys which have been supporting life on the planet for billions of years. All of a sudden the teaching of Rodale was out the window. Feeding the microbes was found to be the solution to organic gardening. Compost has little to no food value left after the concentrated decomposition process. Instead the idea of feeding real food to the microbes came into vogue. The real food of choice is corn, wheat, soy, alfalfa, and other protein sources. These are usually available at your local feed store for $12 for a 50-pound bag and up. The application rate is 20 pounds per 1,000 square feet. It can be applied at double the rate with no harm. It can be applied at double the rate every week of the growing season with no harm. The cost per application is about $5 per 1,000 square feet. Compost, on the other hand, can cost up to $75 per 1,000 square feet depending on whether you need to have it delivered. Most people over apply compost bringing the cost to $150 per 1,000. When you apply that much compost to a lawn, it will smother it leaving a bigger mess than ever. Thus I disagree with the idea that compost is as good as anything. It is worse than almost anything and costs a small fortune.
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nearandwest
13 years ago
The elevated soil pH is confirmed by the elevated levels of Ca (Calcium) and Mg (Magnesium). The application of elemental S (Sulfur) at 10-20 lbs. per 1000 sq.ft. will reduce the soil pH and provide an improved environment for nutrient uptake by your turf.

Here is a link for information:

http://www.planetnatural.com/site/elemental-sulfur.html
dchall_san_antonio
13 years ago
I just posted a link to a video for control of crabgrass in a St Augustine lawn. DO NOT USE THAT METHOD IN A NORTHERN GRASS. St Augustine is extremely salt tolerant and can handle that method. KBG and fescues are not that salt tolerant and will die in that process.

Dense turf is the solution. If you have full sun but don't have any KBG in your lawn, it would help if you could plant some KBG seed this coming fall. It will ensure you have a dense turf.
totsuka
13 years ago
I used Bradfield CGM a month ago to try and prevent, knock down the crabgrass attack. So far, good results and the grass is really dark, green, thick. I had to buy it from csn stores, but they are out of it now. It is difficult to obtain in FL so I don't think I'll be able to use it in Oct as recommened. You might try CGM if you can get it. Once the crabgrass is out, it won't do anything much other than green up your lawn. Good luck!

Help with organic lawn care

Comments (5)

bpgreen

nearandwest

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