Hi Harvey Horses, I had the same question at first, but here is how two 4 x 4s equal a 4 x 12.....You can lay it out with matchsticks to see the visual if you want. A 4 x 4 uses four sides, a 4 x 8 uses 6 sides. A 4 x 12 uses 8 sides. Two 4x4 kits contain 8 sides. in other words: both of the 4 x 4s have four sides, but you don't use the fourth side when you stick them together. You are just using three sides of each (U shape to U shape). That leaves you two extra sides and you stick those in the middle and the 4 x 4s now equal 4 x 12. I am not that handy, so trying to build these myself is not impossible, but I will spend a lot of time trying to save a little. I might even have 10% off coupons to save even more if I buy the premade stuff. Melikeeatplants...good idea. I will check craigslist. I want to use things that don't have bugs or diseases in them, so I would have to figure out a way to clean used boxes. But, still, I'll look. Maybe someone has a new one for sale? I am definitely leaning toward the wood. If they don't last forever, that's ok. I can replace them later. I'm not that thrilled with the plastic versions. I too am afraid of stuff leaching into my soil. Thanks everyone who mentioned that. fyi....if anyone is looking into the "frame it all" kits I discovered that if you wanted a large garden, DO NOT buy the large kits they sell. You will save a lot if you buy enough smaller kits to make them as large as you want. For example, 4 of the 4x4x6" kits will make an 8x8x12" garden, but the 8x8 garden can cost up to $450...and 4 of the smaller kits can be purchased for as little as $160.

Billy, my Sago is all yellow..I vowed never to buy another, then Walmart had Sagos in bonsai pots for 9,99, a couple yrs ago, so it followed us home. It did fine, until I placed in the gh this winter..sigh I bought a Cycad, think it's Dioon, on Ebay..came w/2 whole leaves..sheesh. Ended up buying two, potted together. The seller no longer posts pictures of this Cycad..Wonder why..lol..Thankfully, it was inexpensive. They're plugs, so guess I shouldn't have expected much, but I bought plants in plugs from another seller, his plants are 4-5 times larger. None are Cycads. Do you really think it's warm enough to ship? Let's see, how about next Monday..temps are 'supposed' to warm up this wkend.. Also, let me know how I should wrap it. It's been a long time shipping tropicals. Sux yes, trops, no. Any ideas? I fear cuttings will dry during shipping. Should I use moist paper towel? Plastic bag? I have a Donkey's Tail, but no String of Beads..That will be fine, or you don't have to send anything.. Any other cuttings you're interested in while I'm at it? Can you root Christmas Cactus? It wouldn't be much, just a couple sections..Recently got a 'rare' yellow. Whoo hoo..lol.. Let me know..I have to check to see if I still have your addy..Nope, no addy. You still have my email addy? Or you can jot it down via GW. BTW, as an experiment, last summer I planted my Sago in the garden..it did fantastic. So green..sure doesn't look healthy now..The trunk is firm, so it's not dead, but all leaves yellowed and need pruning. It's my fault though, I forgot to water. :( Toni

Hi Franklin, "I couldn't find reliable information related to arsenic leaching into the soil in harmful amounts... I wouldn't be afraid to use it...and do." Well, I guess that depends on how you define "reliable information." It's easy enough just to define information that disagrees with your viewpoint as "unreliable" but that might not be in your best interests. It would take a long time to do a thorough search on this subject, but here are a few things that turned up on the first couple of pages of a Google search: A Connecticut Agricultural Experiment Station report - Arsenic in Pressure Treated Wood found that soil samples taken from beneath CCA-wood decks contained, on average, 20 times more arsenic, 76 mg/kg, than control soil, a level that is more than 7 times higher than the state's legal limit of 10 mg/kg and nearly twice as high as the US Environmental Protection Agency's regulatory guideline of 41 mg/kg. "Clearly, the arsenic levels pose a potential environmental problem," the study concluded. Since that report I believe the EPA has lowered their level to the 10 ppm state level. So the soil under decks was on average more than 7 times EPA's current allowable level, with some occurrences much higher. The problem is, the EPA is not enforcing their own regulations. The wood treatment industry has lobbied the government effectively, just as the paint industry and insulation industry and tobacco industry did for decades. Thanks to their governmental lobbying we are now faced with the problem of removing lead paint and asbestos from our older schools and homes and we have a generation of smokers who started as children. And school playgrounds still abound in arsenical wood. And the lawyers are getting rich from class action lawsuits. Online Lawyer Source - Pressure Treated Lumber Wood Treatment Linked to Dangers You can get arsenic on your fingers just from touching CCA-wood, it's dangerous to saw it, and if you need to dispose of it you must treat it as a toxic material, and if it catches on fire the smoke can be very dangerous. The EPA announced CCA pressure treated wood products must be eliminated by January 1, 2004. Home & Real Estate Archives - Pressure Treated Wood Treated Lumber: a Consumer Arsenic Alert Perhaps you have seen papers such as: Treated Wood in the Garden There are alternatives to arsenical wood for the garden. Arsenic Availability from CCA Treated Lumber and Uptake by Plants The measurements in those two sources showed that dangerous levels of arsenic were fairly close, within an inch or so of the treated wood. Those measurements show that, on its own, arsenic moves slowly in the soil. The problem with that is that after you cultivate that soil (or earthworms do it for you), all bets are off. The arsenic gets mixed away from the border, where more arsenic concentrates. You don't have to ingest enough arsenic to kill you to be harmed by it. Mild arsenic poisoning may cause symptoms that include, but are not limited to, nausea, loss of appetite, diarrhea. Moderate arsenic poisoning may cause symptoms that include, but are not limited to, tingling sensation in the palms, cramped muscles, metallic taste, vomiting, stomach and throat irritation, chronic headaches, fainting, dizziness, delirium, or coma. Long-term arsenic poisoning may result in darkening of the skin, skin rash, marks on the fingernails, wart appearing marks, and skin pigmentation changes. I know this is still a controversial subject. There are still some people who think cigarettes are good for you. But my feeling is why use arsenic pressure treated wood when non-arsenical alternatives are available? And don't forget, arsenic is a cumulative poison. MM

If those are the sagos and they produced new leaves in the position where they are now, those leaves were produced in a shady situation. Cycas revoluta is a full sun plant in habitat, so when you grow them in a shady situation, the leaves are ellongated and they don't have as much energy as plants that are grown in more sun. If they were in more sun the leaves would be shorter and the whole plant would look tighter. The Cycad Special will help produce more leaves, but these plants will not produce as many flushes each year in the shade, or when they are grown indoors as compared to being grown in good light.