I'll throw out the observation that there are many more dwarfing rootstock choices now. If you want a smaller tree you can consider P.2 or Bud.9, or G.16 (which is a little larger than the other two). This would work better than open vase pruning and produce a longer-lived tree, though you would have to stake it.

Thanks for the suggestions on rootstock options. As it has been quite a number of years that I actually looked into rootstock, there are now more options. However, I don't wamt a rootstock where I will need to stake the tree. Aside from the mowing hassle, there might possibly be a higher chance of losing the tree should it get blown over. I definitely don't want to lose this line of apple.

If you would lose it I live near Clay County WV which is where the original Golden Delicious apple was grown. I'm also distantly related to Sherman Mullins the original owner of the tree. After the propagation rights were bought by Henry Stark people stole some scion wood and sold it as yellow delicious. I could get you scion wood from the original strain with no problem. As a matter of fact my mom lives about 10 miles from the original tree. I'm not sure if it's still alive but there are plenty of offspring around.

Most of the YD I manage are old strain and I absolutely agree that it is in all ways superior to newer strains except for its tendency to russett, which I don't mind at all. It is also suprisingly resistant to plum curculio and unsprayed orchards around here often have acceptable fruit of YD when all other varieties are destroyed by the insect. Too bad that I even find the older strain to be insipid- I like some acid with that sugar.

I don't think you have to worry much about the survival of the original strain, however, because breeders all over the world use this apple to create new varieties. It's probably the most popular breeding stock of any type. As long as there is pollen based breeding there will be a few trees scattered all over the globe.

You have really provided some interesting trivia info on this apple, thanks for sharing. However, I would like to get some advice on my original post about the best grafting rootstock to choose this time around and when (what height) to start pruning in order to achieve the vase or open style shape. I will maintain my current tree as long as necessary to ensure my "as yet untested" grafting technique worked and the new tree is thriving.

Since I will be retiring next spring, I will have much more time to devote to fruit tree maintenance. I really would like to have the tree growing on a medium that will allow me to more easily maintain a smaller size, not to mention ease of spraying. That is why I thought the open style pruning sounded perfect, at least reading past posts from Jellyman sure has me convinced! If that method of pruning shortens a tree life, I would be interested in knowing that too. I know dwarf rootstock would work, but I really donÂt want to have a tree that will require staking. So any advice on rootstock and pruning from those experienced would be greatly appreciated as I am a novice in this area.

The traditional "semi-dwarf" rootstock is M.7, and there have been no significant new rootstocks introduced that are this size. The trend generally in commercial orchards has been towards improvement of the smaller rootstocks in sizes similar to M.9. Anchorage on M.7 isn't the greatest and I've seen several trees uprooted by wind over the years.

The smallest rootstock I would consider reliably self-supporting is M.111, which produces a fairly large tree. I don't know whether it's suitable for open vase pruning or not -- the ones I have are pruned to a central leader.

It is my experience that open-vase pruning leads to weak crotches, which ultimately give way, the resulting mechanical damage often being more than the tree can withstand. I therefore use this pruning method only for plums, since plums don't live very long anyway and are nearly impossible to train to a central leader system.

Scionwood is like source code, the best way to preserve it is to give it away. Golden Delicious types aren't hardy here -- they will grow and fruit but freeze out in bad winters every 5-10 years, otherwise I'd try to get you to send me some.

Also, you might consider making an interstem tree to get dwarfing plus anchorage. Bud.118 with a Bud.9 interstem is a common combination that will do this. Fiddly to graft but might be just what you want.

Thanks for the information on grafting. My current tree was grafted onto M111 and it gets to be quite a good size if not pruned sufficiently, which I guess is what happened with me. I appreciate your advice on the weak crotches from open vase pruning, may not be a good option in the end.

I was not aware of the interstem option until yesterday when it was mentioned about other options available. I will investigate that.

If you start with scaffolds not more than a third the diameter of the trunk at point of attachment you can create a strong union and construct a long-lived open center tree.

I am often up in open center trees over a hundred years old that are in excellent shape. I'm am talking about hundreds and hundreds of trees here and I'm not saying branches never fail- just that it's quite doable.

I think a better shape is to turn it upside down and train to an umbrella or weeping shape. You can start with a central leader tree and eventually convert the upper branches into a 3 or 4 scaffold weeper. Branches start about 8' above where the lowest tips end up (after a few years of being weighted down by fruit or pulled down with string). Once you create the form pruning is extremely easy.

Harvestman, the technique you are describing, is this more common in Europe? I have a coworker who is married to a lady originally from France. Her father is quite the gardener as many families are there. I remember him trying to describe a fruit tree pruning/training method that he was unfamiliar with, but as he did not understand it very well himself, he could not fully explain it. He tried to research the method from resources here, but was unable to find the same technique.

It may have come from Europe, of course. I have heard that claim and read it as well in "Ecological Fruit Production In The North" by Hall Beyer and Richard.

In this book they recommend restoring old apple trees by training them to this shape. When I began my business 20 years ago I used their method as a guide and began my mission of transforming hundreds (probably thousands by now) of old apple trees into apple factories. In this book it is called "The Swiss Method".

The trees I generally employ it on are huge old seedling root-stock trees, but I've recently begun training some younger trees to the shape because some varieties just seem suited for it. Ginger Gold is an early GD type (much snappier) that really wants to weep that I'm training this way and on my own property I train my Fuji this way because it's the only way I know to reliably get annual cropping from it and also keep it's rediculous vigor under control (the 2 issues are related).

You can join NAFEX and check out that book from their library or order it on-line. If you give me a FAX# or your address, I can probably find a print of the chapter about this method. You will have to translate it from converting old trees to training young ones, but it won't be hard.

Thanks Harvestman, I appreciate you offering to send me a copy of the chapter. As I did not see an e-mail address listed for you, I can't reach you directly. If you click on my name, there is a "send e-mail option" where you can get my e-mail. I don't want to post it directly on the site. Thanks again.