We have everbearing red raspberries also. I planted them back in the mid-1990's, and I don't remember the variety. Sweetness varies, season to season. They need lots of rain and sunlight to get going in the spring. This year, we had considerable rainfall, but more overcast weather than we usually have. We have had more overcast weather in July, which is usually hot and sunny, here in Madison, Wisconsin. We have a few raspberries, and they are ripe, but they are not very sweet. From past experience, I expect our weather to change for the better in August. Berries that ripen in hot, dry, sunny weather should be noticeably sweeter.

"Caroline" is one of the sweeter red raspberry varieties. It is often recommend here on this forum for that, and other reasons. My "Prelude"'s which have become my favorite variety lately (for many reasons) are also very sweet.
-Glenn

can you sucessfully grow the prelude andor carline in upstate ny..zone 5?

matthew18-
According to www.NourseFarms.com (The place I'd recommend you get your berries from. They have a perfect feedback record on DGW, and are highly recommended here on this forum), both Prelude and Caroline are good down to zone 4, so I'd think you'd be OK. My only hesitation would be that that Harvestman did have some problems with Caroline in his area, but I'm hoping that's an isolated case. (I believe he later said this his site for the Caroline's wasn't all that great, so maybe that was the problem). This is only my 3rd year with Caroline, and 2nd year with Prelude, so make sure to do your own research. But, I believe everything I've said here is backed up by other's experience here on this forum. Good luck,
-Glenn

glenn, thanks for the advice, i went to the nourse farms web site..they are sold out of all red rasberries. I sent them an email to see if that 100% accuarte. I only live a few hours away and woud gladly make they trip for the caroline or preludes

Hi Matt-
The time to plant bare-root raspberries is in the spring... Though, with Nourse, they sell out early, so best to place your order in December or so. You could also buy plants at your local nursery, but you'll pay 10x more (seriously) and you probably can't find varieties like Caroline / Prelude. (Most nurseries around here carry good-ol-fashion Heritage and call it a day... though I did find one place that had a couple Caroline's).

Some other online nurseries will ship to you in the fall. www.RaintreeNursery.com (not as good as Nourse, but...) sells Caroline in the fall. Not sure about a fall shipping Prelude provider. If you want to go the fall route, lets talk more about the nurseries... There are some real scam nurseries out there that you need to stay away from. Personally, I'd still do Nourse in the spring.

If you could take the trip, perhaps Nourse would have some potted you could take. I've actually always wanted to take their tour. They also have a U-Pick operation there, so time your visit right, and you could taste Caroline's and Prelude's for yourself!

-Glenn

Matt, I'd second the recommendation for spring planting of bare-root Nourse plants, especially in your zone. I've planted a number of potted brambles in the fall and many do not come up in the spring (or sprout very weakly if they do) leaving nonproductive gaps in your rows for a few years for you to weed. In addition, the bare-root plants from places like Nourse and Hartmanns are often huge (more than 10x the root system) of the 4" pots that you'll get from mailorder nurseries later in the year. In comparison, most of my spring planted bare-root brambles (e.g., Carolines, Preludes, Autumn Brittens) have filled in the hedgerow in 1.5 years. My experience is based on planting 60 or so small potted plants in the summer or fall vs. more than 200 bare-roots in the spring.

forgive my ignorance but what does a bare root look like in comparison to what i buy at the local neigborhood nusery? What i bough in the local was in a pot. Also will the bare root plant produce berries in the same year?

Matthew:

The difference between a bare root and a potted plant? Well, a bare root is bare, and is not in a pot. The roots are clean of soil, and must be kept moist until planting. Many potted plants are purchased in active growth, complete with leaves, while bare root plants are dormant.

If you are buying potted plants in an attempt to get instant results the first season, you are making a poor choice. Growing berries is not just about the first season, but the many seasons after that. Quality bare root, virus-free plants will grow more vigorously than most you can buy in pots.

Check out DJ of Nelson's experience above. I support his recommendation for spring planting of bare root stock. You have one of the best nurseries in the country for these plants right near you in Nourse Farms.

With respect to the "sweetness" of berries, most any red raspberry will become sweet if left to ripen fully on the cane. Unfortunately, as the berries become sweet they also become softer and eventually crumble. If you are using berries as a garnish, you might want them to stay whole, but if you are making jam they can be softer and consequently sweeter. There may be some minor differences in the sweetness potential of different varieties, but they are just that -- minor.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Hi Matt-
Good question.

If you're expecting something resembling a plant, a bare root plant is a bit scary looking. With raspberries you get a cruddy looking stump of a cane, and a bunch of roots below it. All this in a bag with no dirt. Just some damp newspaper strips (or some other medium to keep it damp). The first time you see one you'll say "There's no way this will grow". But, grow it will. Going the bareroot route is much less expensive, gives you access to tons of varieties, and will often result in a much better plant. In some cases, like apples, planting a bareroot whip will often quickly overtake a plant that was first in a pot from a nursery.

I went looking for a good pic of a bare-root raspberry, and whadda ya know. The first link was to a Nourse page. See below.

If you go with an everbearing (fall) variety like Caroline or Prelude, then yes, you will get some berries the first year. The picture below was from my 1st year Preludes. What you see in that pic is only 25% of what I got. But, this was a very good 1st year harvest IMHO.

People can get confused how to plant them. The roots want to only be 1" from the surface. But, the cane (as you can see in their picture) is rigid down 3-4"" below the soil line. I talked with Nourse about this and got the skinny: Dig a center hole deep enough so that the cane can still be vertical. Then, dig little trenches only 1" deep on the surface and lay the roots in there. Spread the roots out the best you can. The biggest mistake people make is burying all the roots at that 4" depth and that doesnÂt work well. I think Nourse needs to have a diagram describing this. Some of the plants IÂve gotten from Nourse have had much involved root systems than the ones shown in their pic.

Out of the 65 or so raspberry plants IÂve gotten from them, IÂve only ever had 1 or 2 fail. And, IÂm sure if I had asked, they would have sent me a replacement. But, with raspberries, itÂs no big deal because they spread so fast. I usually plant them 2Â apart, and 1.5 years after planting, you have a full hedge of raspberries, and you canÂt tell where any one plant got started from.

Again, especially with raspberries, bare root plants aren't sexy when they arrive, but really, they're the only way to go.

Hope this helpsÂ
-Glenn

my PreludeÂs in their first year
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Here is a link that might be useful: Nourse: Why Dormant Bare Root Plants?

glen, thanks again for the guidance. I got on nourse's mailing list and I intend to order right away in Dec/Jan. Havent decided on caroline or prelude's. My local orchard has caroline so im going to try them this weekend. Is there any issue with growing different everbearing reds in the same hedgerow? Ive read that you want to keep black rasberries away from reds. Im thinking i may grow both caroline and preludes together.

Matt-

That's great about your local orchard having Caroline's. Hopefully their Caroline's will be tasty and prove me correct!

But, I agree with Ericwi that the sweetness seems to change each year related to the sun/weather. ItÂs been very very rainy here in RI this year, so IÂve noticed some of my raspberries being off this year. Especially my Joan JÂs. I'm enjoying my Preludes more than my Caroline's at the moment.

I meant to suggest getting on NourseÂs mailing list. You might also want to get on the RainTree mailing list just to give you an idea of whatÂs out there. Adams County Nursery (right near you) one of the best nurseries for buying fruit trees if you want to branch out to that.

I've only been growing the raspberries for 4 years now, so take all my advice with a grain of salt. So, for the advice of keeping reds away from the blacks, we've talked about that a bit here recently Basically, you always see that advice, but you never see anyone who says "I had both reds and blacks and I had problems". Really, for most of us, that advice just isn't practical. Supposedly older varieties of black raspberries could transmit virus to the reds. I havenÂt had a problem, nor has anyone here that IÂve talked to had a problem. IÂd go for it if I were you.

But, mixing two fall bearing red raspberries in the same? My anal side simply wouldnÂt allow it. And, every location is different just because variety A does great for me doesnÂt necessarily mean it will do great for you. If you mix them, youÂll never have the option to remove a poor performing variety. Also, technically IÂve seen Prelude classified as a Summer variety even though it really seems to act as an Everbearing variety for me. (Normally you wouldnÂt want to mix Summer/Everbearing varieties because youÂd loose pruning options) IÂd advise against doing it, but then again, I realize that the world will not come to an end if you do. IÂm sure youÂll still get plenty of good berries.

Good luck,
-Glenn

Matthew:

If you have the option of keeping varieties separate, I can see no reason for mixing them together. Once they grow up, you will never know which is which, and if one performs better than the other, you won't know which of them you should keep or discard and it will have become impossible to separate them.

Keep them separate, and by a considerable distance. Of course Glenn is right that the world will not end no matter what you do, but you might as well benefit from the experience of others. That's why you're here. I think.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

I need help with my raspberries! I have Caroline, Heritage, and 2 other varieties. They are all in large containers... For some reason only one or two of my Caroline raspberry plants, taste sweet and any good. The rest of the raspberries taste bland, watery, tart, and not sweet at all.

All the raspberries are in pots with slightly different soil composition. They all get close to the same fertilization, sun, and watering.

I was wondering if it was because I live in a zone 9 (heat issues) or its something that I did to the soil and fertilization of the plants.

Hi Nullzero-
I'm afraid I don't know! I don't know anything about zone 9, but Nourse says that Caroline's are only good to zone 7, and perhaps that is the reason? Where did you purchase the plants from? Perhaps someone else will step forward with a diagnosis. -Glenn

Most the plants are 2 years old. I am curious if the heat would effect the taste that much or its something else I am doing.

Nullzero: Again, where did you purchase them from? -Glenn

Nullzero:

One other thing you are doing is trying to grow red raspberries in containers. They may survive, but containers do no provide optimum conditions for caneberries. I understand that you may have no choice.

The varieties you are growing are not adapted to a zone 9 climate. It is too hot, and the heat is exacerbated by container growing, which heats up the roots more than those of in-ground plants.

It is possible that you could grow a variety like Baba, which is particularly well suited to hot climates. It was discovered near Los Angeles. I grow it here.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

well i stopped down to the local orchard after reading on there web site that they had caroline's....wasted trip... the young girl working the counter didnt have a clue where they were bring frown...i have to go back

Another question, i purchased the heritage reds from my local garden center. They produced berries for about 2-3 weeks. Now theres nothing and the plant looks bare. Is this normal? When will should I expect to see the next crop? I thought I read somewhere that it would produce into the the fall??

Matthew:

Let's clear up the situation before we go any further. Most caneberries are biennials, that is they grow up one season, and produce the next, at which point they are completely removed. "Summerbearing" raspberries follow this pattern.

"Everbearing" raspberries have the ability to produce a small early crop on overwintered canes from the previous season, then those canes should be cut down at ground level. But, simultaneously, new fresh canes (primocanes) should be growing in, and these are the canes that produce the later crop, which is usually considerably larger. If you want to shoot for a small early crop the next season, cut these canes down to 3-4 feet in late fall after you have harvested the berries instead of removing them completely. Many growers of "everbearing" raspberries, myself included, prefer to call it a day and cut them off, thus forgoing the small early crop of the following spring. This is sort of a "clear the decks" approach, which allows the new canes to grow in without crowding from the previous year's canes.

So when you talk about your raspberry "plant", do you refer to canes that grew in during the '08 season, or new canes that have grown in the current season? It makes a big difference, since the '08 canes are essentially shot, while newly grown canes should produce for you later in summer.

No raspberry, BTW, produces steadily throughout the season, so in that sense "everbearing" is a misnomer.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

The everbearing term is certainly misleading..kinda like a Jedi mind trick :) Anyway, I have 2 plants(heritage & rolalty purple that i bought from the local garden center, they were in pots. That said, if they produced a rasberries this summer, I'm assuming they migh be 2 year canes.

Hi Matt-
Ok, Heritage is an everbearing fall variety which means that you can (if you don't mow the bed) get 2 crops (a smaller summer crop, and a larger fall crop). The early (summer) crop is on the previous year's canes. These canes will be hard and brownish in color. The later (fall) crop is on this year's canes which are soft and green.

But, with Purple Royalty, that's a Summer variety which means you only 1 crop, and it only comes on the 2nd year brownish canes.

But, since it's currently time for the earlier crop, and that early crop always comes on the previous year's canes, I agree, you're dealing with canes that are on their 2nd year.

-Glenn

Matthew:

You're not giving us enough information. You need to be more specific if you want help. What do you mean by 2 year canes? Raspberries do not last 2 years, though they might produce in the spring of the 2nd year. After that, those canes are toast.

Heritage is an "everbearer", which should have grown in new canes by now, and in fact they should be at least blooming if not bearing. Are they? If not, something is wrong.

Royalty is, I believe, a summerbearer, which means it will not bear on new canes, but on those same canes the following season. Do not mix these two together in the same planting. And if the plants "were" in pots, I guess that means you set them in the ground at some point.

You have me wondering if you are actually reading this stuff we are writing for you. Do not buy your plants from the local garden center. Buy them from Nourse.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Thanks guys. Next year I'll be getting my order nearly with Nourse

Heritage and other primocane (current season growth) bearers are OK to buy in pots, but it's a waste of money unless you are in a big hurry. I have sometimes planted local nursery sourced Heritage this way when it's too late to order BR's from a better source. My customers tend to not be very used to waiting for something they desire. You can plant a potted plant in June and get berries in the late summer into fall.

Heritage doesn't seem to have much trouble with virus related disease so I don't know how important source is as long as plants are vigorous. Of course if you are also planting summer bearing types you would want to be sure all your plants are "clean".

A healthy raspberry in a pot will have no trouble growing into soil and establishing into productive plants, in my experience, and I often throw some of my surplus into pots in case some customer wants some later or I don't have time to plant them in the spring at someone's site.

Please disregard anything that I suggested about Caroline because my experience with it was at a problem site where nothing did well until I solved the problem.

If you want sweet raspberries it is often helpful if canes are adequately thinned to about 6 to 9" apart. Excessive shading will reduce sugar whether it's caused by clouds, trees or other canes. There's bound to be some regional influence here, depending on how strong the sun is.

It's been very rainy here but my Heritage summer crop has had better than usual quality because they rely on rain for all their water. Water is crucial to quality and quantity as well. Lots or rain is helpful right up to the week they start to ripen- then you hope it stops. A soaker hose or water delivered without wetting the fruit and nearby leaves will increase consistancy of yealds and quality considerably in the long term.

Glen,

I ordered most my plants from burnt ridge nursery and baylaurel. I was experimenting with them in containers in my zone. It seems the Carolina was the only variety that seemed to turn out good.