My earlier post on this subject was somewhat misleading regarding the ripening of Rosseyanka. My January Rosseyankas aren't ripening in the usual sense of the word; a better account is that the weather brings on desired changes in the fruit's flavors and texture through freeze and thaw cycles. A few varieties of persimmons improve with this kind of exposure - Rosseyanka more so than any other IMO. "Ripe" around Christmas time some years, they're the closest thing I have to sugar plums. But I rely on these winter Rosseyankas because my season just isn't long enough to ripen them in the conventional sense. At the end of my growing season the fruit is not yet fit for fresh eating - I would guess that the same would be true for yours. As far as hardiness goes, My Rosseyankas and Nikita Gift both survived temps of -11F without dieback this past winter.

Now, this is my sort of topic, those of you who know me would agree lol... 1. I recommend you get all persimmons from Cliff England at England's Orchard & Nursery. He has an impressive variety of scion wood and a number of grafted trees, as well. Cliff only sends out quality stuff and always for a very reasonable cost. I just got, among other things, the American persimmon cv. 'Dollywood' and a seedling selection of Cliff's of an Asian persimmon which he calls cv. 'Shin-Na-Da'. I'm not recommending Cliff just because he's a great friend, but because I know of no other nursery (for jujube, paw paw, persimmon, nuts, mulberries) that I would rather patronize, this from the first time I placed an order well before I knew him. 2. Prok. Well, first-of-all, John Gordon jr. told me that George Slate selected 'Prok' (and 'Korp') are seedlings (open-pollinated) of the American persimmon cv. 'Pieper'. That's a smaller (much) persimmon; in the distant future, it will be genetically evaluated so this matter will be settled one-way-or-the-other; to me, although a bit similar to an American persimmon like cv. 'Morris Burton', I feel the foliage and new stems are a little too rubbery; it puts on a second-flush of growth, as does Diospyros kaki; the flower's a bit too large. Yet, I'll wait until it's tested. As for Burbank's cv. 'Keener', I think it has as much chance of being a hybrid persimmon as Slate's 'Geneva Red'/'Geneva Long'; Burbank said he failed - failed at making a good fruit or making a hybrid? and when did he say this, before or after 'Keener'. As David LaVergne said to me, Burbank may have had a lot of failed attempts as a result of, unknowingly, using 60-chromosome strains, and not just 90-c. What really interests me is to know: can 90-chromosome American persimmons freely hybridize (open-pollinated, without double-mentoring) with 90-chromosome Asian perismmons (or D. lotus, D. rhombifolia, for that matter, all being 90-c). 3. As Lucky points out, cv. 'Early Golden' wins the taste-tests and cv. 'Yates' is excellent and very large, although not as large as the questionable 'Prok'. 4. As for cv. 'Early Golden' being not just parthenocarpic but also self-fertile, Jerry Lehman told me that this is over-stated and there are not that many male limbs set forth, even on a mature tree. Yet, seedlings produced by crossing 'EG' with itself produce female seedlings, from which good cultivars often come. 5. Lucky, I spoke with John Gordon jr. a few weeks ago on the phone. He's doing good, but his home is not any longer on the orchard. Nuttreesnorth.com is now his page. As for F-100, if Cliff doesn't have it, you can ask Jerry - I should be getting some this spring, I'll send it to you. 6. Lucky, interesting: yet, I think, like you suspect, maybe the few male limbs on your Early Golden-family trees are responsible for the seeds. 7. Benny, I wish I knew for sure. Wes Rice believes that persimmons, in general, are parthenocarpic. Put it this way, I've found many persimmon (female) trees planted in areas without males and they have fruit; these are not cv. 'Meader' for sure. 8. Mk_in-Ohio, well... all of the sources I can think of have only scion wood. BUT, you can contact Cliff England and ask him if he would graft 'Szukis' for you. http://www.nuttrees.net/ 9. Benny, interesting - I'll have to look into that; re: F-100 not always setting fruit.. I've been curious about that cultivar for a while. Also, I agree with Lucky - I'm very interested in finding out how your D. kaki interstem experiment works out. 10. Lucky, cv. 'Hokkaido' is only supposed to stay true to its dwarfing form when grafted upon it's own species rootstock, not D. lotus or D. virginiana; for your area, that likely means I suppose you didn't grafted it onto D. kaki. Steve (p.s. changing my user name soon)

that wasnt my point .... the point was that stuff happens.. even with stock that is thought to be reliable in any given zone ... mother nature really lacks a sense of humor when she has a bee in her bonnet ... to mix a bunch of metaphors .... most wont care about a z4 in my example.. it just wont matter... but something though secure.. might not make it ... and its usually the one i prize most ... lol anyway .... i recall once.. discussing this with a very large wholesaler.. complaining about another supplier.. and wondering why the bad labels .. like you ... and his best guess was that supplier A ... had a quarter million tags printed up so many years ago .. and they will be damned.. if they arent going to use them up.. before they print another batch .... and i bet some of this is behind bigboxstore labeling problems ... all speculation.. who knows ... ken

I very much dislike stainless steel. As an accent, it can work well, but I always feel like I'm entering some industrial factory when I run into kitchens whose major appliances are covered in stainless steel. In addition, having had a Cuisinart drip coffee maker for several years now, which is mostly stainless steel (hey, an accent!) it is impossible to get the smudges, fingerprints and whatever else off it. I keep waiting for the thing to die a natural death so I can buy a new one. I prefer black, white, or certain colors (but for colors other than black or white, as others have noted, matching up the appliances is near impossible). My current major appliances are white, and my fridge, which is about five years old, has that yellowing plastic handle for no good reason I can determine. It's been yellowing noticeably for at least two or maybe three years. No sunlight really gets into the room, and I've never cleaned the handle with bleach. I use Simple Green or Method on it. In my upcoming build, I am going with black major appliances. I've had a brand new black microwave for nearly a year now -- it seems to be easy to keep clean, and I plan for it to move with me. The previous one was white, and at age 25 years of service, it had itself gone notably yellow. It did have something of a plastic frame. (I got rid of it partly for that reason, but mostly because I figured after 25 years of service, who knew what it was leaking...) The main problem with paneling major appliances in my view is the added expense that I'd rather put elsewhere into my build. (edit due to adding clarity on old microwave...) This post was edited by Artemis_MA on Fri, Feb 6, 15 at 18:12