Hi Lucky_p-
Good info. In that case, if both are edible (and if crabs are often tasty), what makes a crab apple a crab apple. Is it just that regular apples often taste better? Or is there a special crab flavor? I've always wondered this, and I believe I asked it in another thread, but never got an answer. Next time I see a crab apple tree, I'm going to try one. Thanks,
-Glenn

The root meaning of crabapple is wild apple and I think that is pretty accurate -- it has genes of some other kind of apple (malus) which is not the standard domesticated apple from Kazakhstan. Many of the US crabs have Siberian Crab genes for example. Some definitions of the term say a crabapple is any small apple but that is an inaccurate definition in my mind. The term "lunchbox apple" is the better term for the small apples.

Scott

Thanks Scott! (Sorry if I briefly hijacked the post... back to 'Any good crabs for eating raw'). -Glenn

Pretty sage advice above. I enjoy eating the fruits of my 'Chestnut' crab right off the tree when fairly ripe. I also have a 'Pink Pearl' apple which, while technically not a crab, I guess, pretty much functionally is a crabapple -- small, about the size of a golf ball, tart-sweet, and makes a nice jelly or baked apple or spiced/pickled apple.

I can second Whitney crabs as an excellent eating apple. Very juicy and extremely tasty. They will get up to about 2" in diameter, but usually are a bit smaller. Prolific bloomer, too. They start out a little tart, then continue to sweeten and are nicely crisp. After a couple weeks, they will gradually get mealy but retain a great taste.

Glenn,
By convention(whose, I don't know) any apple producing a fruit typically less than 2" in diameter is considered a 'crab'.
The break between 'ornamental' and 'edible' types is tenuous and artificial, at best; probably based on fruit size as much as anything else; even the 'edible' types are quite ornamental when in bloom, and some of the 'ornamentals', like my favorite, Callaway, can look kind of ratty by the end of the season when they're weighted down by heavy fruit loads..
Scott is right that many of the 'edible' types have Siberian crab in their heritage - Dolgo is a straight M.baccata, and the parent of both Centennial and Kerr(other parents are 'apples' - Wealthy and Haralson, if I recall correctly, respectively). Others, like Chestnut and Almata also resulted from deliberate crosses of apple cultivars with crabs.
I've seen any number of taste-test trials that consistently ranked Chestnut and Wickson crabs at the top of the list for consumer acceptance.

Thanks Lucky_p! -Glenn

Thanks for all the help.

I'm in the Ohio Valley.

How are the crabs you have listed in the thread for disease resiance?

Anything I should not go with if it is disease prone?

My transcendant crab fruited for the first time this year and I was impressed with the apples. They are crisp and juicy and have almost too much flavor ... very tart and astringent but also sweet. I was picking them for weeks, and would go out at night with a flashlight and pick a few more.

The best eaters are John Downie and Golden Hornet.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fruit Trees

Allenwrench,
I'm a no-spray orchardist - not because I don't believe in them, or worry about harming the environment - I just don't have the time to bother with it.
Are my crabs perfect, without any insect damage, sooty blotch or flyspeck? No. But the vast majority of the fruits are in good enough condition to eat without being worried too muc about a codling moth larva here and there, and in those that do have some insect damage, I just cut out or eat around the bad spots. It's almost September, and the leaves on my crabs - and apple - trees are getting pretty ratty-looking, with a few trees almost defoliated from scab, etc. - but it's the end of the season, and they're not landscape specimen trees(though they are quite pretty in their spring bloom). The leaves have mostly done their job - manufacturing food for fruit production and next year's initial growth surge.

Will any crap apples grow in zone 11 with no chill at all?

Thanks Everyone?

Lucky's definition is what I've read again and again. Any apple small enough is a crab. "Wild" as a definition doesn't make any sense to me although that doesn't mean it isn't also a usage definition.

I am warry anytime someone claims such and such are the best in flavor, whether it's crabs or any fruit. There are many different crabs that are widely celebrated for their flavor in the fruit loving community. Which taste best depends on the brain directing the mouth in which they are being chewed. I feel certain that it would be a mistake to single out only 2.

Some crabs are disease resistant, some not so much and I wouldn't be surprised if the same holds true for insect resistance although I'm really no expert on edible crabs. I did order a few trees of, I think, Centennial for my nursery to try them out and I manage a dozen or so old trees that are grown for their fruit. I do think many varieties can enhance cider-both fresh and the real stuff.

Trees of Antiquity carries several interesting crabs.

Location can make a significant difference.
In zone 5 and colder, the red-fleshed crabs, like Geneva, Giant Russian, Winter Red Flesh, etc. may be tasty eating - but here in my hot zone 6, they're nothing to write home about - and I was forewarned that they were 'trashy'(I thought that was pretty harsh, at the time) in a warm climate - though Almata, which fruited for the first time for me in 2008, was tasty enough; but still a far cry from Centennial or some of the others mentioned earlier in this thread.

I know this thread is old but do any of the lunchbox apples have good fireblight resistant trees.

Steve

I've never messed with crabs at all, but I have tried a few wild ones as a kid and remember they were terrible. Hedge man... it's good to hear you say Golden Hornet is a good eater. I've recently seen a YouTube video by prof. Kent who had a G. Hornet....beautiful tree. Do they get nasty and ratty looking like the wild ones, or will they stay nice? If not, will a few insecticide/fungicide sprays keep them nice all season? I guess I've always thought of them as super tough and disease resistant. From the comments here it sounds as if they are as difficult as regular apple trees?

poncirus (are you twisted or straight? FD or species?)
,
I've had Centennial, Kerr, Callaway, and an unselected Dolgo seedling growing here for nearly 20 years. Don't recall ever seeing a fireblight hit in any of them - though I do routinely have FB in various apples/pears around the orchard.

Going back and correcting one of my previous posts - I would not now consider the red-fleshed Geneva and Giant Russian as good for eating out-of-hand - I still like Almata, but even it doesn't compare well to Centennial or Kerr. Geneva/G.Russian are best for making jelly - or adding some red color to homemade applesauce.

Another one that I'm really liking is Jim Bastian's 'Orange Crab', a chance tree that he encountered on a roadside in NH(IIRC). Fruit resembles, to some degree, Centennial and Trailman, but it's not either of those; dense yellow flesh, very sweet.
Orange and Centennial are at their peak here right now, Kerr still at least a week or two off... Almata dropping quite a few this week.

I've never messed with crabs at all, but I have tried a few wild ones as a kid and remember they were terrible. Hedge man... it's good to hear you say Golden Hornet is a good eater. I've recently seen a YouTube video by prof. Kent who had a G. Hornet....beautiful tree. Do they get nasty and ratty looking like the wild ones, or will they stay nice? If not, will a few insecticide/fungicide sprays keep them nice all season? I guess I've always thought of them as super tough and disease resistant. From the comments here it sounds as if they are as difficult as regular apple trees?

Sorry for the double post, don't know what happened there.

lucky

I am straight and happily married. LOL.

I originally chose my name because I had planed to start a Meiwa kumquat to Poncirus Trifoliata and this was my pilot setup. I was going to call my self Ponciruspilate. My minister of Cincinnati Mennonite Fellowship and friend of mine advised me not to that some would be offender, So I grabbed poncirusguy as my pen name. I have been asked if my name had any Special closeness to me by several people. I myself am an unemployed comedian looking for my first job as such and have been known to word thing in twisted and funny ways. I have the standard PT with straight growth.

If you ask my family members they will tell you I am twisted. "Any one stupid enough to grow citrus trees in Cincinnati has got to be twisted". When I go out of town I have to find friends to water my citrus. My family members won't be bother by something this stupid. Good friends are priceless. I hope I have answered both your questions

Steve

Consider: Chestnut Crab
Small Apple: American Summer Pearmain or Golden Nugget.

One thing to remember is that crabs usually pollinate much better because they have more flowers due to small apples.

In addition, crabapples are the most nutritious apples by far. I think this is because almost all of the cancer fighting anti-oxidants are in the peel, and there is a much higher peel to flesh ratio in the crabs.
john S
PDX OR

lol. That's funny, I don't care who you are!
Ponciruspilate... I've got both the 'straight' species and and the 'twisted' Flying Dragon strain of P.trifoliata growing here.

I, too am married - for 29 years now... the happiest 18 months of my life...

I am in zone 6b (NY Hudson River Valley) and would like to get a John Downey crabapple or another like it in terms of size, color, fruiting.. Would it be hardy in my area, and who sells them? I need the shade as soon as possible so larger is better.. thank you!

oops - meant to make a new post, not hijack this one! but if you know the answer, please reply:)

Is there any good tasting crabapple that also has double-flowered blooms? (I mean the blossoms do not just have 5 petals)

Wickson Crab is one of the best crab. I am pretty sure the flower is pretty too.

Tony

I have scion from the following varieties and need to decide which to graft in each of 3 locations. I want to keep the best eating varieties near the house and either bench graft them or top work on a flowering crab. Other varieties will go on some flowering crabs, outback. Varieties are Kola, Trail, Rescue, Shafer, Bastians Orange Flesh, Northland, Sugar Crab, and South Dakota Winter. I would appreciate any comments on disease resistance (especially CAR) and which I should keep near the house.

I will add Linda Sweet and Wamdesa to the above list.I also have a handful of wild crabs. Some of these tees will be very close to red cedars, some,will be 50 yards away from the cedars.

sandbur,

CAR has not been a significant issue on my crabs - plenty of redcedar around...GoldRush looks like a canary most years.

Other than Bastian's Orange and Trail(man?), I'm unfamiliar with the other selections you've listed.

I think Trail and Osman are the parents of Trailman. One old timer told me that Trail was a big hardy crabtree for the northland.

Used to be a guy who showed up here from time to time who was growing and fruiting Trailman somewhere in Alaska... that's 'north' to me...

I have a trail man that will be coming third leaf. squarpegman?

Trailman is a remarkable juicy sweet crisp apple for my climate, one of the best for apple juice, loaded with tons of spicy juice which I found is heavier then any other apples, ..sinks to the bottom in water, [like pears] where most others swim. Rock hardy but pushes leaves earlier then other apples, heavy spring frost can kill it when in leaves.

In really cold climates they seem to grow crabapples a lot. Strange thing is that they only seem to grow the really bad tasting ones. Try tasting one fresh off the street tree. Yuck! You can still can and pickle the good tasting ones........

John S
PDX OR

But,...most street apples are JUST ornamental and not for eating! Trailman in my climate is as good then any of yours locally.

Oh I happily beg to differ on the idea that we only grow the bad tasting crabs lol.

As Konrad pointed out, Trailman is a wonderful crab sweet and juicy. Rescue is also a good one, but I would give Dolgo a pass however, unless as a rootstock.

And any apples from most of the street trees are not meant for eating or even canning. We let the birds have em.

I just meant that my experience is that when I go to cold climates, the crabapples usually taste bad. I'm glad you are growing good tasting crabapples. JOhn S
PDX OR

I like Dolgo, too, sb2. And 'Callaway', which is a large-fruited (1-1.5" max) ornamental type... and grew up eating the fruits of some unnamed red-fleshed/purple-foliaged ornamental crabs... by the bucketsful.

Yes, I like and eat Dolgo, Callaway, Centennial, Chestnut, Wickson, and I'm starting to grow Martha as well. I appreciate you all's recommendations as I'll try to graft those in too. It's nice to have a different crab for a different part of the season.
John S
PDX OR

Out of all the edible crab apples, can anyone recommend one that would be a bit more tart than a Granny Smith but not astringent or tannic when ripe? I plan on eating these raw. I'm in the southeast and don't have much land but would like to plant 1-2 trees.

Granny Smith is one of the most tart apples anywhere. It is really hard to find one that someone will actually eat fresh that is more tart than Granny Smith. Callaway might come close.

John S
PDX OR

Thanks John. I'm originally from SE Asia and we like to eat sour fruits like unripe mangos and unripe tamarind. We can't grow those in TN so crabapple is the next best thing.

Try Cornelian cherry (cornus mas), honeyberry (lonicera caerulia?), or quince ( cydonia oblonga) . Quince may get too much fireblight in TN.

John

Wickson crab has fairly high acids in much of the country, but way out west it develops significant sugars which balance the acids. Less tannins and interesting flavor. I grow Winekist which may average just less than 2" tall and wide. Great apple in my area: Spokane, WA, but I cannot yet speak to its tannin levels. First fruits had 12 Brix and significant tartness, which I love. A Whitney crab a few blocks away yields loads of fruit on a vigorous tree; its tannins are just noticeable.

Parker25mv asked about a double flowered crab and its taste. Brandywine has a pink double blossom and a crab that averages 1 1/2 inches. I have never put one in my mouth, so cannot speak to that.

Regarding Dolgo crabs..I don't mind tart or even astringent flavour , and find that the best tasting apples are a mix of sweet and tart and other complex flavours....not so keen on sweet all by itself....like Red Delicious ....boring apple !.....I love russets because, although they are very sweet, they are also tart and malty and have other flavours ....which brings me to Dolgo crabapples....lots of comments about how they are only good for jelly......I strongly disagree, I only just planted my 2 Dolgo crabs last year and well, they are tiny, but incredibly delicious...they have wonderful sweet/tart flavour but also a tropical fruitiness not just golden orange colour, but also golden orange fruit flavours such as mango and passionfruit...they are delicious right off the tree in my opinion...they are tiny , dime size, or nickle size, but packed with flavour.

Dolgo makes my favorite apple sauce with a nice pink color. Cook the apples and run them through a Foley food processor. The apple sauce has somewhat of a cherry flavor to me. Kindercrisp is very close to the apple crabs in size and is great eating.

Any that can be grown in zone 8a Texas? I can’t seem to find chill hour requirements on any of these above mentioned crabs...