va tidewater,
that is the question of the hour...I'm hoping you get a response, because several of us are very interested in the particulars. I was also wondering if knee highs would work...I have lots of them, but no footies.
thanks,
Michelle

Well Michelle I may be the only one who has tried nylons on apples but I doubt it. If so then I shall return come harvest time with the results. The main problem I have with apples (other than Cedar apple rust) is the pests that enter via the blossom end and the hose toe does a good job at covering it up.

I have been using nylon "footies" for years. These are the small nylons found in women's shoe stores.

I originally posted the idea here on this message board years ago - in fact thought about trying to market the concept until I found out how inexpensive they were online.

Anyway, insects cannot lay eggs through the nylon mesh. The only problem I have ever had are earwigs nest under the nylon at the stem area.

I use bread twist ties to secure the footie onto the apple at the stem.

Vgkg:

The idea of using nylon footies has been around for a long time, as has the use of ziplock baggies. Footies are the preferred method on apples at the Home Orchard Society in Portland, OR, though I can't for the life of me understand why.

I have seen some reports indicating that codling moth can lay eggs through the footies, which are basically the same type of material as panty hose. But whether that is true or not, plastic ziploc bags work marvelously well on apples, and are both cheaper and easier to install and remove than footies or any nylon material, certainly if they must be affixed with twist-ties.

Speculation that ziplock bags cause rot from excessive moisture is off the mark. They do not. Ziplocks also provide a high degree of protection from the surface fungal infections known as sooty blotch and flyspeck, while nylon materials do not.

Footies do have an important use, and that is on peaches and other stone fruits, that do suffer from the humidity of the bags. They are attached by a single tie over the branch or twig holding the fruit. No staples or ties are required.

I am all in favor of experimentation, but have tried footies on apples, and, in my view they are clearly inferior to ziplock bags for this application for the reasons given above. And panty hose would be a problem for me, since I don't use enough of it to pull out of panty service for covering fruit. In fact, I don't use any. Yet.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Thanks letsski! that's what I was looking for. The open end around the stem did worry me a bit but fortunately there are few earwigs around here unlike my past home when the critters were everywhere around the place. Not one summer night would go by without 1 or 2 earwigs crawing across the ceiling in the den. And outside it would look like the ground itself was crawling there were so many around. As for the hosery left over from the toe snipping I can easily cut it into small sections and sew up one end for more.

thanks for the great info!

Thanks Don, missed you post earlier, will test both ways on one tree if I ever get a chance.

I put nylons on my apples to keep birds from pecking. I do not, however, also put high heels on them, as they don't get out much. :)
Carla in Sac

> Footies are the preferred method on apples at the
> Home Orchard Society in Portland, OR, though I
> can't for the life of me understand why.

Not anymore, we're completely aware of the situation. Although some of us use them for Apple Maggots, I personally don't see the point.

TCstoehr:

That's good news indeed. Apparently, somebody at HOS went through a footie period for apples, and it was reflected in the HOS publication. Or maybe it was the website. Another victory for common sense.

I was a member of HOS for nearly 10 years back in the 80's and early 90's. I found it a lot of fun to read the publication, until the word "organic" began to appear in nearly every paragraph. I'm not opposed to organic growing for those who can do it, but it's not my primary focus and I eventually lost interest and dropped out. Living in Virginia, I guess I was an anomaly anyway.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

I think the problem was that the footies were promoted as a solution to CM *before* actual testing was done. I credit Ted for coming up with the idea, and props to the HOS for making the footies conveniently available and reasonably priced. It seemed like such an ideal solution at the time. I was truly stoked at the idea of being rid of the CM so painlessly. It just didn't work. This year it's Ziploc sandwich bags for me, hopefully with better results.

Murky:

Cutting off or slitting the entire bottom off the baggie might be an idea that will actually work better than just cutting the corners, and might make bag preparation a little easier.

Flying insects like codling moth will still not be able to enter through the constricted and slippery bottom of the bag. But why anyone would advocate a product like footies for apples that is more expensive, more difficult to install, and less effective remains a mystery to me.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

This is a pretty old thread, but hoping someone will see this.

I'm confused about the ziplock baggies... 1st, how to "zip" it and keep it zipped around the stem. Then comments mention cutting the bottom vs cutting off the corners. I'm not sure why the bags are cut. Would a non-zip sandwich baggie with twist tie work as well? I feel like I'm missing something.

First of all, plain footies or fruit sox as they are also called, aren't that effective, but in the last several years, people are using fruit sox soaked in kaolin clay. They are about 96% effective. Hardly anyone I know uses the plain ones anymore. You can buy the fruit sox already soaked in the clay, or do it yourself. I find them more expensive than ziplocs, but also more effective. Don, your climate is different than ours, so it might be a factor. The ziplocs close themselves shut at the bottom even if you cut out the bottom, so you have to keep opening them. Also, they sunburn the fruit. Many have a black quarter sized spot on them where the sun burned through. This is not such a problem with the fruit sox. The ziplocs are also more likely to be blown off the tree in a strong wind, because they create a small wing. I use both of them, and I find them equally worth the price difference.

The ziplocs are cut to make sure that it can breathe and so the water during the summer can drain out. It doesn't rain here during the summer for a month in a row quite frequently.
I wouldn't use a non zip sandwich bag.

We get earwigs, but I don't think they eat the fruit.
John S
PDX OR

I have used ziplocks for two years. I have lost a few pears that I believe the bags damaged but for the most part they have provided me with almost insect free fruit. I still think ziplocks is the best way to go. More small vents in the bag appears to eliminate some issues with moisture. I'm still tinkering with getting the ideal amount of holes without letting in insects. Most all my apples and pears have ripened except for my Goldrush apple. The Goldrush apples were bagged immediately after blooming. They have not been sprayed with any chemicals and still appear to be in excellent condition. Hope this helps. Bill