By 'brothers', do you mean they came from the same source of genetic material ..... as in cuttings from the same plant?

Al

No I mean that they both came from the same pot when puchased at the nursery. I seperated them and trained one as a bush and the other with one main stalk like a small tree. They both done great last year, but the one I'm concerned with has been very sluggish in budding out this year. It has put out a couple of buds since it's been pruned, but they are not growing nearly as much as the other plants. The other 2 Scheffs started budding out in mid-April, but the tree shaped Scheff has just started budding out in the last couple of weeks, and the new buds don't seem to be very vigorous in their growth.

Do you think that it could be root bound this year? Although, I am inclined to think otherwise on the root bound issue, because I haven't seen any roots coming to the top of the ground, coming out of the bottom, or it hasn't needed watering frequently either as do plants that are pot bound. But I may be wrong about that, because something is making a difference.

Thanks Al...I hope I've given you enough info to diagnose the problem, if not let me know.

Matthew

Just considering the mass of the two 'brothers' that is above the ground .... I'm assuming the 'bush' is larger? by how much? Are they in the same size pots/soil volume? If not, what are the differences in depth of the pots? When did you prune the one that is tree-shaped into that shape? Did you fertilize both plants at the same time/rate? Light exposure and soil the same?

Al

Hi Al, Actually the tree-shaped scheff is the larger one. It is about 27" tall and the bush is about 12" tall after their pruning this spring. These mreasurements are to the outer extremities of the plant. They are both in 9" pots, but the tree-shaped scheff is in a rounded pot, and it is about 6" to the soil line. The bush scheff is in a cylinder shaped pot and it is about 7" to the soil line. There has to be more soil in the bush sheff pot. That is why, in my original post I questioned the possibility of it being pot-bound. I pruned the tree-shaped scheff into a tree last year and it done great. I had 3 major branches and 1 small one fork off at the prune and the major ones got about 12" long, and the small one about 4" long. This year I pruned about 4" off each of the 3 major branches, but I didn't prune the small one. They have started to bud out, but only 2 of the majors and the small one have began to bud and they are very sluggish in their growth compared to the "brother" plant. I fertilized them both at the same time/rate, and their light exposure and soil are the same.

Matthew

I was trying to gat an idea of which plant has more biomass - with all the soil off, which plant would weigh more? Pruned it last year when? After say, Sep 15?

Al

That would be a hard shot to call, because even though the bush is much shorter it has 4 main stalks coming out on it, and the tree-shaped only has 1. They both would, in my estimation, be about the same with all the soil off.
I pruned it early in the growing season last year, maybe around April or May. It was early enough in the season for it to grow the 3 12" branches before the dormant season.

Matthew

Don't know. The reason I asked about the mass is to try to determine if the tree with better vitality had a lot more foliage to provide the energy for new buds. I asked about the timing of the pruning because removing a significant amount of foliage late in the growing season or in winter leaves a plant at a considerable disadvantage and can weaken it noticeably. If the tree-like plant had less foliage than the bushy plant, and you were watering/fertilizing them at the same time, it's possible that the tree with less foliage was getting over-watered or was/is dealing with a high level of salts in the soil.

Sometimes there are problematic issues so commonly coupled with certain cultural conditions that you can suggest what the problems might be with a fair amount of expectation that the diagnosis is accurate, based on odds alone; but sometimes things are more obscure and being caused by some detail going unnoticed, which I suspect is the case.

Now that summer is almost here, you should be able to move them outdoors where you can give them some sun and be sure they dry down considerably before you water. When you do water, you can saturate and flush the soil thoroughly each time. Scheffs respond very well to half the suggested strength solution of 3:1:2 ratio fertilizers (like 24-8-16, 12-4-8, or 9-3-6) every 2 weeks or so when growing well.

You probably already know the story about soil, so I'll just say that a well-aerated mix that is stable/durable can ease a lot of heartache and noticeably improve vitality, as well as the margin for grower error.

Al

The tree does have less foliage, which could very well be part of the problem. And also what has to be remembered is the tree is in a pot with a little less soil, which may also be part of the problem.

I tend to have doubts about the salt build-ups, because I set them out in the rain to receive a good flush from nature when possible, but I may be wrong about that.

I have already had them setting outside for at least 6 weeks, and probably closer to 2 months. I can't remember exactly, but I can afford to put them out early in the spring because I live in zone 8-9a and the temps will allow it.

All my Scheffs were pruned at the same time and that was not long after I set them outside.

And as for the soil, it's a good draining soil, it was very happy in it last growing season. I use Miracle Grow for my fertilizing, so I'm getting the 3:1:2 ratio.

I did read your post on container soils and how to fertilize them. Those are some very good reads Al, and I want to thank you and give you the credit due yourself for your time and efforts to assist container gardeners in ways to be more successful in their gardening efforts, job well done!

Thanks Al, and any suggestions you might have will be much appreciated.

Matthew

I'm at a loss, Matt. I was just tossing out ideas in case something might stick. I'm sure the first thing you checked for were the malicious marauders, scale, mealybug, mites? Had to ask.

I wish I was local to help you figure it out, but ......

An aside that made me laugh: I got home from church today and there was a guy I had never seen before in the garden, which is not all that unusual, but he had brought a piece of a peace lily he wanted to save because it had sentimental value (father's funeral plant). It was a tiny piece about the size of a very small baby carrot .... no leaf and only a single forlorn root - the rest had all rotted away. We gave it a bath in a fungicide and potted it up in a fast soil. Hopefully it will make it. I sent him home with a little Kalanchoe from a cutting I started a few weeks ago, and that made him happy. He also decided on the spot that he wants to take up bonsai. ;o)

I do want to thank you for expressing your appreciation, Matt. It means a lot.

Maybe someone else has an idea I haven't thought of? The more people with thinking caps on, the better. ;o)

Al

Lol...It sounds like he'd better wait till high school to take up bonsai, doesn't sound like he's gotten out of elementary yet! Hope he can save his cherished peace lily.

No, I see no signs of invasion by malicious marauders.

I did notice about 8" down from the fork on the trunk a bud just barely starting to peep out. Do you think, even though it would through the shape of it out of balance if left to it's own, that allowing it to grow out some might encourage more budding elsewhere (hopefully in the canopy and not the main trunk)? I can always remove it before it gets big enough to do any permanent damage to the shape of the tree. It has already tried to bud out in a couple of other places down lower on the trunk, but I rubbed them off as soon as I saw them in order to maintain the tree-shape that I desire of it.

Also, do you think that up-sizing it to a bigger pot would make a difference (although it's a little late in the season now for re-potting)?

Matthew

I'll leave it up to you as to whether or not you should remove any buds, but the more mass the plant has the faster it grows.

Now is an ideal time to do a repot on your scheff (in your zone - still a little early for most in 4-6). I would encourage you to do a FULL repot, which includes bare rooting and root pruning. You just might discover an encircling or girdling root that is causing the waning vitality.

Going to a bigger pot can assuredly make a big difference in growth rate, but if you're using a heavy soil, you haven't the latitude in pot size choice that you do with a soil like the gritty mix, so use some discretion. Lol - you could stick it in a 55 gal drum if you're using a soil that doesn't hold perched water.

Al

When you say a full re-pot, bare rooting, and root pruning, I'm not very experienced in these practices. What do you mean by bare rooting, and how do I know which roots to prune, and which ones not to prune? Some tips on these practices would be much appreciated, because I'm going to up-size it into a larger pot and I want to be sure it's done properly.

Matthew