Depending on how long the wires are, they can have a really heavy load once the vines get big and loaded with fruit (or wet from rain). More wires will distribute the weight better. Another thing to consider is that the vines do better with the trunk and roots shaded, so spreading out the growth for more shade can help. I have 5 wires (200K psi high-tensile) over a 4 ft cross-beam. I have seen commercial trellises with extensions that stick out and down to add another wire on each side (7 total) to create more shade underneath.

I would think you could get away with 3 wires spaced as far apart as possible, but make sure you get some really high-tensile strength wire.

Thanks kiwinut!

So your 4 ft. cross-beam extends 2 feet from the post on either side? (or does it extent 4 feet on each side)?

Thanks again,
Bart

2 ft on either side.

kiwinut,
how do you connect the wire to the beam?
I'm building one next week, and I just want to make sure I have all the parts needed to build the trellis.
I'm gonna put 8' tall 4x4 in the ground. and use a 2x4 for the cross arm. Does that sound alright?

Bass

Bass, surely Kiwinut will tell you the best advices. In the mean time I briefly tell you my experience. I tried several wire fixing systems but none of them was completely satisfactory for me. After that, I discovered the "gripple" and, without any doubt, it is the best of all. In fact, I tried it according to an advice of Kiwinut in this forum and it really was a well chosen option! You will need a tool for tensioning the wires but the small investment worth the effort.

You can view the gripple system in the link below. Take a look in the left menu; "fencing", "trellising"... and in the following pages take a look in the videos on the right.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gripple

I also use gripples and have been happy with them. Orchard Valley Supply sells them. You can fasten wire about any way you want with them. Orchard Valley also sells the screw ground anchors and I am a big fan of them for attaching the wire to the ground. For kiwis get some pretty big anchors and screw them all the way into the ground. If you don't properly anchor the ends of the wire your trellis poles will cave in.

Scott

Scott,
so I will attach the wires to the cross arms. I was thinking of using a wooden post anchored in the ground at a 3 ft depth. Maybe adding concrete to the post. Do you think I'll still need to use ground anchors?

I drill a horizontal hole in the beam and run the wire through it, wrap it around the beam and tie a knot. The knot is difficult to tie with high tensile wire, so you may need to use vise-grips. I then use the gripples to tighten the wires. I also slide the portion of wire that goes through the hole inside some thin plastic tubing so that the wire does not directly contact the pressure treated wood. If you don't do this, the copper in the wood will corrode the wire. This is mostly an issue with fresh wood that is still somewhat wet. Once it dries out a few months, you may not have the corrosion issues.

I don't use a ground anchor, but instead have two 4x4 posts at the ends of each 80 ft trellis about 2.5 ft apart (in line with the trellis), with a 4x4 cross brace that is anchored near the base of the inner post, and the top of the outer post. I also have a horizontal beam connecting the top of the two posts. The cross-beams that the wires connect to are on the top of the inner posts. I may have to end up anchoring the ends of the cross beams back to the outer posts, if they start bending too much as I tighten the wires. Its surprising how easily you can bend 4x4 posts using loaded high tensile wire.

I finally finished my trellis for the kiwis.
I built dug a 3' holes and put a 10' 4x4. poured concrete. I made a cross arms using 6' 2x4.
I used the gripple tool... but it is a not easy to use. I have cuts all over my hands... it is a pain to use...

bass

Bass,

You must be doing something wrong. I find the gripple tool really easy to use. You only need to hold the handles, so I don't see how you are getting cut.

It took me some time to get a good technique with the tool. The instructions I had sucked which did not help. I was trying to thread the wire through a hole on the handle but I later realized that was not the way to do it. The only time I touch the wire is to bend it out a touch so the wire I want to grip is right against the gripple. If you go to gripple.com they have a few animations which may help to see the technique.

Scott

Here is a link that might be useful: Gripple animations (under trellising, on right-hand side)

Oops I meant the wire is NOT against the gripple in the above .. the animations make it clear how to set up the wires before grippling.

Scott

the problem I was having with it is when feeding the wire the the hole, the tool is not holding the wire while trying to tightening it. I kept trying to feed the wire by hand.
Not sure what i'm doing wrong. the videos make it look easy, I did exactly like what they show.
bass

I am setting up my hardy kiwi's as well. I have two 30 foot pieces one inch diameter galvanized pipe, taken from the top of a chain link fence. I'm thinking of using this instead of wire for my trellis set up? Any comments are appreciated.

I am about where David is...I have baby kiwis growing up some wrought iron supports, and I need to start putting together the cross bars and wires. Would it be a mistake to use rebar? I know it rusts...no idea how long it would last. Otherwise I will buy galvanized steel pipe or whatever is optimal. What type of wire should I buy to get the longest possible lifespan from the wires?

Thanks,

Ann

Would it be possible for any of you to post some photos of your trellis system for your kiwis?

You know what they say - a picture is worth a thousand words.

Thanks much.

Cindy

The link below is a PDF file published by the Uni. of Tenn's Ext Service. The document is about growing grapes, but it has the best descriptions I've seen on trellis designs. For grapes, muscadines, and kiwi's, most of the principles are the same, so this might help you. I found it informative, because they gave detailed description of the different trellis designs as well as diagrams. Many articles and books show the 2 or 4 cane Kniffin and nothing else.

My father used to grow muscadines using High-Head Bilateral Cordon pruning with a Geneva Double Curtain tellis design. Like kiwis, some musadines have separate male vines for with pollen and female vines that bear fruit.

He planted a male vine between each 2 female vines. The male vine was trained onto the center wire of the trellis, with the females trained on the outer two wires. Training the female using the High-Head cordon pruning, let the plants form heavy curtains / umbrellas that draped down from the outer two wires. The PDF files also shows the Umbrella Kniffin and Hudson River Umbrella System, which use two wires with one above the other.

The Geneva Double Curtain uses wires that are side-by-side, which is nice when you have vines that are very heavy and fast growing. I've not grown kiwis, but my understanding is that, like muscadines, they are heavier and more prolific vines than regular bunch grapes.

Here is a link that might be useful: PDF file with lots of diagrams of trellis designs

Thanks gtippitt! Now I'm totally overwhelmed!

I hope I won't regret this later, but I"m not exactly following any of the instructions to the letter....I get the feeling many people improvise somewhat so I hope it'll be OK as long as it's strong.

Do you think I can use wire tensioners ---I don't know the technical name but I think they are commonly used for berry trellises. I don't know how thick the wire is that is described in your article...I guess that may help make the decision.

Thanks for all the info!!!

Ann

I'm ready to buy the wire for my trellis, and need help!

I took the description from the grape article with me to Home Depot: "The wire suggested to support the weight of the canes or cordons, foliage and the crop is a number 11, crimped, high-tensile (210,000 p.s.i.), steel wire with a class III galvanizing. Lower wires used for trunk support or for securing the ends of canes on some systems can be of a lower tensile strength. Uncrimped number 11 or 12 galvanized fence wire works well."

There's nothing there that is described with this terminology. Can anyone guide me? The cables/wires at Home Depot are described, for example, like this: 3/16" vinyl coated galvanized, load limit 1050 lb. What happens when the vinyl cracks off? The cables are multifilament, which I'm hoping is what I want. I'm just worried about longevity. 1050 lb sounds adequate to me; I have about a 25' span but I'm going to put another support half way. I'll probably have at least 4 wires going along the length (need to measure the width; it may be more like 6 wires.)

Any help would be appreciated! I can't afford to do this wrong!!!

Thanks,

Ann

Look in the section with Chain Link Fencing, probably in Outside Garden, The standard size you will find are 9 gauge sold in coils about 170 feet and 12.5 guage of 300+ feet. not sure if HD carries but if you have a Farm Supply store such as TSC they will surely carry it, the farm supply stores will carry at least the 12.5 in larger coils as well, but they can be awkward to work with.

I like the coated aircraft cable.
If the coating comes off you can either leave it off or replace it, it's only a couple dollars for 50' (Walmart is cheaper than Menards so is probably way cheaper than Lowes or Home Depot). It's supposed to be clothsline so I doubt if it's going to come off soon.

I'm guessing the wire suggestions are more about cost. You're not filling up acreage so cost is not as big of an issue.

THANK YOU!!!

I just went out and checked mine. The 1050lbs didn't sound the same, it's not. I would go with the heavier cable from HD for Kiwi.
My Walmart/Menards clothsline is probably half that.

Is the Walmart stuff holding your kiwis? The HD stuff is pretty expensive, but of course I'll get it if it's necessary.

The cable at HD was multifilament...is that what the Walmart type is? I just worry it'll rust eventually...but odds are it'll outlive me and I will stop worrying now!

Ann

I have grapes on a trellis I built to handle kiwis if grapes don't work there.

The Walmart stuff is multifilament but not twisted, the Menards stuff is twisted so that is the reason for the slight price difference between them.

It was when I cut the plastic off my cables that I decided you would probably need heavier for kiwi.
If I was to put Kiwis on it after seeing how thin the actual cable is I'd probably run more strands or replace it.
If money is an object look into the wire at the farm stores or price aircraft cable without the coating (the wire should be cheaper).

Personally I think you would be much better off both economically and longevity using the solid galvanized high-tensile fencing type cable over a clothes-line grade braided cable. There are defiantly braided cables that will work, but I would surprise if they did not cost quite a bit more. The description you posted "high-tensile (210,000 p.s.i.), steel wire with a class III galvanizing" is referencing this type wire. TSC (Tractor Supply Company) sells a coil of 9 gauge 170 foot for $14, and the same price for 300+ feet of 12.5 gauge. My Lowes carries the 9 gauge for about $18 I think. The tag may just label weight a 10 LB. A 10 lb coil of 9 gauge is 170 feet. The stuff is stiff and hard to work with tying a knot in 9 gauge is not easy. You can use the U shaped cable clamps if you want. The Gripples referenced above in this thread work great on this stuff. A large gripple for 9 gauge or a medium gripple for 12.5 gauge. I would also consider a in line tensioner or wire strainer at one end, which can really help you keep the wire tight, and only 3 or 4 bucks there are 2 sizes listed on below link. I going to post 2 links one to show wire type another to the wire strainer, the wire link is for a larger coil, and is the 12.5 I would go with the 9 Gauge. Just pasting in the text here as only one link allowed below, so just cut and paste these links. Most any farm supply store, or fencing supplier will have these in stock the wire and strainer, but you probably have to get the gripples online if you choose to use them, but with a 25 foot trellis you have no real great need for the gripple.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/fencing/electric-fencing/high-tensile-electric-fence-accessories/high-tensile-wire-12-1-2-ga-4-000-ft-coil-3601326
http://www.tractorsupply.com/fencing/electric-fencing/high-tensile-electric-fence-accessories/wire-strainer-3601180

Here is a link that might be useful: TSC high-tensile fencing

Thank you so much for your help!! I'll check them all out!

Ann

Strudeldog and other kiwi lovers,

I've been procrastinating, but now I need to get moving. Please review my plan and tell me if it sounds good, excessive, or inadequate!

The trellis is 25' long and 9' wide (including overhang beyond the plants to try to get them shaded.) I'm going to use 9 wires along the 25', and I have steel poles (from a chain link fence) along the width (9'.) The poles are supported by wrought iron porch supports at the 4 corners, which are cemented into the ground. I also have a chain link gate section with a hinge midway, which I placed midway along the 25' so the wires will rest on the top of the gates. I will try to add photos in case this doesn't make sense!

I will buy 9g wire, per your recommendation, and wire strainers ("fence tensioners"?) For anchors, I was going to use wire looped around both sides of the 9' poles and attached to another steel pole cemented into the ground 6-8' beyond the trellis.

My male kiwi is near the gate in the middle of the area, and I have 4 females at the 4 corners. Does this make sense? Does it sound reasonable?

I have 2 photos on flickr but the link is only for one, so cut & paste for the other, or navigate flickr---thanks! The ground is currently covered by a squash plant..please disregard!

Thank you everyone!!

Ann

http://www.flickr.com/photos/catlady4444/4824425647/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/catlady4444/4825034846/

Here is a link that might be useful: kiwi garden

Just a heads up. We bought the brace wire from the chain link section at one of the big box stores (don't remember which one) and as soon as any tension was put on it, it snapped. It didn't even have all the slack taken out before it broke.

So, my son took it back and bought fence corner brace wire from the farm supply store. We are tightening with strainers, and the wire from the farm store can be pulled quite tight.

My son tried using the u shaped cable clamps and it was easier, faster, and more secure to simply twist the wire around itself to secure the ends (using a fencing pliers, not your fingers)