In my experience Liquid Fence protects better than Shot Gun and PlantSkyDD. I also tried "I need garden" (pepermint, clove, cinnamon), it works in rotation with LF for short period of time here. Liquid Fence smells horrible, but this is the only thing I found so far that reliably keeps deer from snacking on my plants. I would see a few bites here and there, but nothing serious. I would say deer pressure here is medium. Deer pass through my garden every night, but just a few of them (4-5).
Olga
Olga

Thanks Brook,

I'm surprised the tape doesn't need to be any taller than 3 feet. Deer easily jump over a 5' conventional fence but I guess the negative reinforcement of the electric fence makes the difference.

I need to protect and area of several acres, so sprays are out of the question.

i use a 7ft tall deer fence its fairly cheap at 60 dollars a 100ft roll when compared to what a herd of deer will do in one night around here.

I guess I could try electric fence for the edamame - it's right behind the house, my dad probably still has everything from when he used to have cows (well, I might have to buy new posts and wire).

I just bought 7' bird netting, but all I could find was 6' stakes. Is 5ft enough to keep deer "discouraged"? They didn't bother the veggies last year (with only low silt fence up), but I hear edamame is like candy to them (I don't grow tulips or lilies any more b/c they like those too).

I know of two things not mentioned thus far. One I'd have to ask a friend where his buddy purchased it, but what it is is a large owl that hoots (during the night) when animals such as deer are within a certain distance. It's solar powered, that's all I know though.

The other method is to use electrical conduit poles/similar and place them on two sides of each tree (east-west or north south). You hammer them in of course and they should be between 3-4' tall above ground. When deer encounter these poles it drives them crazy to the extent that #1 they won't touch your trees and #2 they might even try to bight a chunk off of the pole! My friend and author, Guy Sternberg, told me about this method which he implements at his arboretum.

Here are some photos of his trees with stakes:

(Populus lasiocarpa)
{{gwi:94448}}

(Platanus occ. x or. 'Old Bones')
{{gwi:94449}}

He also uses a pole to attach his plant tag:
{{gwi:94450}}

This should help!

Dax

ajsmama
I just use electric conduit to put my fence up on as they are 10 foot high and cheap

If only two short conduit pipe on a tree will work would be nice
but I experienced deer can adapt to changes and most likely
come back?

Hillbilly - thanks, I'll look for it (1/2" should be OK?), I just spent $1.50 each for 6ft vinyl coated steel stakes but worry they won't be tall enough. My dad said his electric fence charger doesn't work any more.

7' x 21' roll of plastic bird netting was $5 - hope it's not too flimsy. I hear deer won't try to knock fence down to get to food, will look for opening or jump over, but do real damage trying to get back out? Wonder if it's worth covering the top as I would do for birds? Do crows like soybeans?

Olpea, I had the chance of seeing both a squirrel and a deer touch my fence. I have two, and this is the old model, delivering, I think, 800V continuous (the other delivers 2700, but at 1Hz). The wire was at the top of a four feet chain link fence surrounding my old garden. There is a deer trail about 8 ft from the fence. When the deer touched it, it jumped straight up in the air, and the whole herd of five fled at top speed. This was in 2004 or 2005. Although they use the trail heavily, and the fence is mostly off, they want nothing to do with it.

Presumably as the herd changes someone is bound to try again, but they do not make the connection that it is enough to jump over the fence. The area is scary and that is that. I saw someone in upstate NY with a field of radicchio, and he had the single tape 1.5 to 2ft above the ground, held up by posts every 25 ft or so. I had no chance to ask, but surely it worked.

In my other garden, where the pressure is mostly rabbits and groundhogs, there are two wires, one about 6 inches and one about one foot. But surely they work somewhat for deer, too, since I had one event where something browsed my pole beans at about 5-6 ft above the ground. The wires are directly under it, and the damage was minimal. I smear peanut butter on the wire to advertise that it pays to stay away.

Konrad, that's how his entire arboretum is set-up. He outta know. It's not like he started yesterday, either.

See ya,

Dax

Thanks Glib,

I plan to give the electric tape a try. I think I'll use just a single strand at three feet, since I'm not planning to try to exclude small animals.

Another thought about wire vs tape: my friend in upstate NY also had a fence in a heavily wooded area, with wire. But in the winter it is off and he ended up losing it and seeing part of it in the antlers of a buck. The tape is clearly visible at all times, and as stated before, it pays to advertise it.

Scott, my trees are in pasture surrounding by expansive woods, so I've got heavy deer pressure. I primarily use Plantskydd during rutting season and then alternate Plantskydd with Deer Off during the growing season. Forestry Suppliers has the best price I've found on both. One of the advantages of painting Plantskydd on the tree is that you can see if it is still around months later. I've found that it gives me at least 2-3 months of coverage. When painting I don't go for high coverage, but rather quickly paint a few large swaths on the main trunk and then blot a few of the scaffold undersides at deer nose level (total time of less than about 15 seconds a tree). This method makes a 2.2 lb box go a very long way. You've got your trees planting so orderly and close together that you might be able to quickly roll it on your trees in a few passes using a paint roller. A cloth glove would also work. I've also let the solution putrify before (smells like you're smearing ripe roadkill on your trees) and it appears to work even better (just don't get it on you). I also fill cloth bags (the same one's you recommended using to bag fruit with) with Milorganite ($20 for a 40 lb bag) and hang one from each tree, as recommended by Vintage VA Apples, and I suspect this helps provide some coverage if I delay too long in reapplying the Plantskydd or Deer Off. The bags last for at least 2 years so it is an easy and cheap additional measure. Although I realize this really wouldn't apply to your setup, I also use fence rings on young and particularly vulnerable or valuable trees.

Dax,
I can see the two pieces of conduit or rebar deterring bucks from rubbing on young/small-caliper trees with their antlers, but can't imagine them having any effect whatsoever at preventing them from browsing on plants.
Causes me to wonder if you misunderstood Guy's intended purpose for the two stakes.

That sounds right, Lucky.

DJofNelson, it sounds like your plan is not that different from what I am planning on doing. For the bag hanging I am trying this "green screen" product which is basically dried meat and cayenne pepper in a bag. Milorganite if it works would be a cheaper option but I already bought one round of green screen so will give it a go.

I put my first six "wireless deer fence" posts up yesterday. I like the fact that there is a two-year unconditional warranty on them, so if they are not working I can get my money back. One downside of them however is the lures need to be changed monthly, I didn't realize that when I bought them. If they work I will happily change lures monthly forever.

Scott

Lucky hit the nail on the head!

Nope, didn't put 2 and 2 very well-together.

Thanks Lucky,

Dax

If anyone is reading this thread and is interested in the Green Screen bags I mention above, it showed up yesterday and I found one downside reading the label that I had missed - they recommend 2' between bags to make a barrier. That is very close together so the amount of bags needed is large for a large area and there may be no good hanging spot.

So far I have seen no deer chewing since I put up the wireless deer fence posts. My dog quickly checked them out and quickly learned to avoid them so there is a natural draw to them and I expect I may already be reaping benefits from them. I have yet to put out any planytskydd or deer out or green screen but I will probably use one of them after the next rain as a backup.

Scott

I compromise with nature. 1 fruit tree about 10.00 and 10 min. to plant(I have a 2' auger for my tractor). I am expanding my orchard for retirement so I plant 25 - 50 trees per year since 2004. electric fence not working here because we have moose, if they get a shock they run forward. picture a 1200 lbs. moose draging 14 ga. wire over 30 trees at waist and chest hight popping insolators like a sling shot. I was going to put a real fence in untill I talked to an old timer down the road. (he looked 1000 but I think he was only 85 or so) he said do the math. 10 trees a year cost you maybe 300.00. 3 deer or one moose gives you 800.00 in meat not counting prime cuts. Build a barn clear 5 ac for hay and pasture plant or buy grain to raise cows or goats. What is the cost?

I have also moose...they have taken out some trees but with
some protection I managed to get most reach a good height
that when moose comes they can't take a whole tree out, only browsing and eating ends,
Voles can do more damage I found out.

Scott, one thing you might want to watch out for with the bags of dried meat is neighborhood dogs ripping them down and taking branches with the bag. A few years ago I hung bags of dried blood from a few young trees and lost a few scaffolds due to what I assume were dogs (could have been a bear) tearing down the bags. Maybe there's enough cayenne in Green Screen to seep though the bag to prevent this? Might be worth tying a loose knot, dusting the bags with additional powdered cayenne and/or hanging them out of dog range.

Anyone have a large open plot & can put in a trap crop.
You could plant clover or winter rye to keep the deer off your garden/orchard. I am tiring this this Fall.
I maybe asking for trouble, but one never knows until they try.

DJ, I plan to hang them high. I did notice my dog was very interested in them when I opened the box so I will also be able to use him as a test. When I put the box in front of him for a bit he did not grab one immediately, so there is some resistance.

Scott

cayenne pepper will not deter all dogs as mine eat them right off the plants

Next report on my deer repelling results: so far about all I did is put out the wireless deer fence poles, and believe it or not, not a single deer browse has been found! Needless to say I am impressed with these guys since I was getting nightly browsing before. The deer are still in the area as I see my neighbor's shrubs stripped to the bone. I did have some of the Shot Gun spray on things but that should have all washed off by now, so the posts alone are my only control. I am going to put out some other deterrent spray just for good measure soon, but it is good to see how well these posts work. I have 6 posts around about an acre. Cost is $20 per pole. I was a bit worried it would be too few but so far lookin' good!

One other thing I learned, don't spill your Plantskydd! I didn't have a funnel and made a total mess in the garage filling my hand sprayer and even after scrubbing the garage stunk for a week. Also keep any queasy daughters away from it, it looked like there was murder scene in the garage since its primarily blood.

Scott

Here is a link that might be useful: Wireless Deer Fence

Scott, thanks for posting that link and your results. I'm considering adding 5 of those to my existing pile of deer protection strategies and periodically rotating them around to problem areas.

Be happy you at least spilled fresh Plantskydd. A storm blew over a container of the putrefied stuff on my porch and, despite repeated scrubbing, I still catch a whiff of ripe roadkill when the sun shines on that part of the porch.

So why not just use dried blood and get it wet?

You mean instead of plantskydd? It has something in it to help make it rainfast. If that was known you could probably easily make your own from blood meal. According to the label the only other ingredient is vegetable oil so if you knew what kind of vegetable oil was such a good sticker for blood I think you would be set.

Scott

Maybe mix it with some of your Saf-t-oil as an experiment.

That oil evaporates in a few days. My wild guess would be soybean oil, its a drying oil that emulsifies relatively well. Drying oils are the kinds that are in oil paint, you get a permanent coating. Every oil has a different degree of drying and you want one that is not going to keep the stuff on for years like paint but get the 3-4 months of stick. It could also be a semi-drying oil but they tend to be sticky. If you have some blood meal and soybean oil, mix it with water and paint it on .. I bet it will work.

Scott
PS see the link below for a list of oils that might be in it, grouped by drying or not.

Here is a link that might be useful: oils

What brand of blood meal do you use that actually disolves? I've tried seemingly every brand, and it simply settles to the bottom every time as if it were sand, with only minute amounts actually disolving - even when I let it sit for months!

gnomeabram, we haven't done this we are just thinking aloud here. Still I thought blood meal was just dried blood. Maybe some brands are different. Espoma calls theirs "dried blood" not "blood meal" so maybe that would work better for example. Blood meal is used in some spray fertilizers so somebody must be getting it into solution somehow. I'm not planning on experimenting with this but maybe someone here will and will tell us if they get something working.

Scott

Anyone had success mixing up blood meal and oil yet? I'm thinking of trying it... anyone have any idea how much oil vs how much blood meal? And then, with Plantskydd, they mix that solution with water, right? Plantskydd's just so expensive...

Yes, Plantskydd is mixed with water.

Another update... while the wireless deer fence posts are helping, I don't have enough of them and the deer have gotten more bold. I have been using the plantskydd and on leaves I put that on I never see any nibbles. I had put it on some directly on fresh sprouting grafts and it seemed to set them back a bit (its dark and I think it made them heat up too much in our heat wave) so I was just spraying the base below the graft. Well that was working until last night when the deer munched one of my new cherry grafts pretty horribly. GRRRRRRRR KILL KILL KILL .. oops where was I? Oh yes.. Today I changed it up by mixing up some of the "Deer Out" stuff for the first time. It is much much easier to deal with than the stinky plantskydd stuff. I could also just put it in a regular pump sprayer and it would not clog so it was very easy to nail every single deer-level shoot. It also can be put directly on fresh grafts without problems. I plan on keeping the Deer Out as my primary control for a period here, they are not used to it so it should work well for awhile. I will switch back to Plantskydd at some point but will put it directly on the shoots - on the more mature shoots it doesn't seem to bug them too much.

Re: the wireless deer fence posts, I expect I need more of them. The deer have never, ever munched on what is right by a post and generally they keep quite a ways away from them (I only have had one exception to that so far). I have about 500' needing protection and only 6 posts. I am going to order some more of them. If I had more in the beginning I may have been able to deter the deer completely; the problem now is I let them get a re-entry so it will be harder to beat them back now.

Scott

Scott, I tend to mainly use Plantskydd in the fall and winter and apply it primarily only on the bark by painting it on with a brush. I use Deer Off during the growing season on new growth, but then change things up some at least once or twice during the growing season by painting splotches of Plantskydd on the trunk and the underside of scaffolds at deer nose height (and somewhat sun/rain protected) so the deer don't get too used to the Deer Off. Painted Plantskydd also works on berry canes that you wouldn't want to spray because they are fruiting. I was planning on ordering some of your posts for the same purpose. I actually just noticed some nibbling and need to do a spray today.

One more update here... the deer are clearly fixed on my orchard and they keep looking for openings. The Deer Out has pretty much stopped the grazing, but they did munch a bunch of things I didn't think they would like before I noticed it and hit them -- they are moving from their favorites to lesser things. First it was the daylily flowers, so I hit them with Deer Out and ended that. Then they went after the green apple fruits, which I am guessing have enough unsprayed innerds that they don't mind the bit of off taste of the spray. I lost most of my apples that were within deer reach. I am finally getting relief with a fishline strung at 3' around the whole back orchard. Given the success of that I may also string some of the front orchard. For that part I will need to put in stakes to run the fishline around. It took me only ten minutes to string the back part, and I am finding it not that hard to duck under when needed, so I may keep it up for some time here. The hard part is going to be getting me and my full backpack sprayer under (well, more likely over) it.

Re: the wireless deer fence posts, they clearly scared them off at the start, but the long-term effect is not that good if the deer are as fixated as mine are. I am hopeful that if I can de-program the deer this season that the posts will scare them off better next year (and, hopefully my this years crop of deer will get a fascination with the nearby interstate highway meanwhile and so not be back next year ;->). The Plantskydd and Deer Out are both proving to be highly effective on things that are directly covered with their spray, except for fruits.

Scott

Yet another update. The deer are proving to be my biggest pain this summer. I found that for my hungry deer the Deer Out did not last the month promised on the label, some strong rains washed enough off for the deer to get busy again. So I have decided to switch to a fish line fence approach for the rest of the summer. I have now strung a line around my entire yard at about 3' high. I also kept the previous line I had around my main orchard so that one has two lines of defense. I have had two line breakages so far; one of them allowed the deer to do some serious damage; in the other one they must have gotten scared off soon. Both the breakages were at posts. I have the fishline wrapped around the post tops to tension it as needed, and most of the posts are the "\_/" - shaped metal fence posts. Both the breaks occurred at the edges which "cut" the line under pressure. So, several days ago I put some 2-3" pieces of PVC pipe around the top of each post (just duct taped them on for now) and am wrapping the line around that. There is no sharp corner and I have seen zero breakage thus far on those. I am using 20lb test. In the future I will probably up it to 50lb test for even more security. 1000 yards of 50lb test is only $18 on Amazon.

Here are some other thoughts on the fishline fence. The idea behind the fishline fence is to spook the deer, they don't see it at night and since they don't know what they are dealing with they don't try to jump over it. They do seem to apply pressure to it to test it, so having a careful setup is important. I'm not completely sure if 20lb is not better than 50lb, the 50lb may be more visible which could work against it. I have one stretch run with 50lb and it has been working so far, and that leads me to think that 50lb may be the best. I have found that rather than putting "doors" in the fence the easiest way to get into my yard is to duck under it. On some of the poles I have set them up so the short PVC piping can go up and down, and that helps make it easier to duck under since the wire will lift. Longer stretches are also easier to duck under, but I think if they get too long the deer may not be as deterred, its the shock of the sudden pressure that seems to scare them. 25' is about my longest stretch now. The height I have kept in the 2'-4' range, having it vary is probably a good thing, adding to the "spook" factor. In terms of tension I have been tightening it to be taught, but not forcing it - I do enough rounds on a post until it is not easy to add yet another round. It will probably require continual tightening. One other thing I added for good measure is plenty of plantskydd all around the boundary. Maybe this is not needed but the stuff is coagulating too much anyway so I need to use it up. Hopefully it adds to the danger/skittishness factor for the deer.

I'm not sure how long I will keep the fence up but if it keeps working I may keep it up quite a long time. Even in the winter they are coming by to much on the shoots.

Now all I need is a squirrel/bird/stinkbug fence and I will be set :-)

Scott

I am basicly a shoot em redneck. 2 days ago I would have had to hide from my redneck friends. I came in about 11:30 from weeding my blue hubbard field (about 3/4 ac) 15 min. later there were 3 deer in the field. While weeding I saw very little deer damage. I grabbed a rifle, opened the window, put the crosshairs on the 2nd deer, a spotted fawn. The deer walked down 200' of row turned at the electric fence and walked back out the gate I had down to weed. Not one of the deer took a bite while I watched. In maine you can shoot deer in your profit gardens not your home gardens. My wife was right there saying kill kill. They sometimes distroy her flower beds. I hope not to many rednecks read this or I will be labeled as a greeny. I wonder what the fawn would have tasted like roasted on a spit on my back yard stone grill?

This city boy would be staying up late nights gun in hand to pick them off .. if it were only legal.

My impression is the only kind of shooting that is legal is something that will not harm them such as a low-power bb gun. Based on how tough my deer have been to deter I don't know if that would make much of a dent, I can't stay up all night every night.

My last resort I have not turned to is there is a state DNR hotline number and if I get enough neighbors with me I may be able to get them to come out and solve our problem.

Scott

I use fishing line for about 15years now when I put in the veggie garden. When deer gets into it and pull on it, there is a pin at the end of line holding a steel weight with shot caps under on top of a steel rod, the weight then drops and makes a loud BANG... have 5 banger set up in my large garden.

I have some deer come in the beginning, one's caught they
don't seem to come back...haven't had any for weeks.
If your'e a machinist and interested I can post some pictures.

I think any strings work, even without a bang,..better then nothing, they don't like to get tangled in things.
Bird netting over vegetables helps too.

Konrad, yes, please post pictures of banger. Always interesting to see inventions.

Scott, have you tried the 3-D electric frence? It works very well for me...I'd call it 95% effective, and it's easy to put up. Once you have the charger you can expand or make changes easily. I couldn't have a garden or orchard without it.

This year my big problem is raccoons.....they wiped out my William's Pride.

OK..
This weight is upside down to show the little studs, plunch milled with a slotdrill, [2flut endmill] the center was cut open to make the right size of studs. Had it chrome plated.
{{gwi:94451}}

I used a Stainless steel welding rod for the pin, holding the weight up. The red string is a safety line to hold the pin and not get lost when pulled and on the ground, I can see it better.
{{gwi:94452}}
..

The top face is slightly angled for good water flow away.
The pin I bent like this to sit on top, then it can not rotate, it doesn't have to be.
{{gwi:94453}}

{{gwi:94454}}

I used to have it set up in the orchard in winter for several years until trees grew larger. The sliding shaft is stainless steel, a carbon bar steel with drilled hole welded on the bottom where the weight will hit it. Looks like I have 3 fishing lines tied to it.
{{gwi:94455}}

Thanks for posting these Konrad, thats a clever idea. I think there might be a way to have a noisemaker as well as keeping the string up to block the deer if other deer come along after it was tripped. The general idea is to put a strong spring inline which triggers something when pulled with a certain number of pounds or pressure. Not sure what kind of gizmo like that could be rigged.

I can tell the deer are still looking for openings in my fence. Last night they pushed against one of the lines and managed to reach a cherry branch which they munched to nothing. That was the only damage they managed to do. Having some noisemaker thrown in could add to the deterrent.

Marc, I live in too urban an area for an electric fence, not even sure if they are legal. If nobody minded I would go that route. Maybe the fishline with some noisemakers rigged to it would be nearly as good.

Scott

Konrad, thanks. You and your invention are amazing!

Marc

I've toyed with the idea of setting up a motion-activated system: replace the bulbs in your automatic yard light with a screw-in plug and plug in a boom box. (This might not be a good idea if the orchard is close to your house!) The tape player could have any number of sounds: crunching footsteps, rifle shots, barking dogs, etc. One orchard I know of activates a sprinkler system which helps some. Strobes could be hooked up, odor emitters perhaps.

Just thoughts,

Mark

That's some nice machining Konrad. Good thinking to taper the top to shed rain.

It looks like my fishline worked for about two months... recently they have figured out where it is and are jumping over it. I am going to run some higher lines, I found one person who got permanent control with four lines. I am probably going to try three at 3', 5', and 8' or so. A lower line would also be good, but with the lowest at 3' its not hard for me to duck under and so it can stay up all the time and no need to put a "gate" in. First I need to buy some 8' poles. I don't think the noise scare would work on these particular deer, I have been sending my dog out when they are out and hes one fast and sneaky dog who is right on their tails for a few blocks and surely scaring them to death, but they are back in a few hours.

Scott

{{gwi:62258}}

Scott I got my redneck shirt back last night. Last night about 9:15 dogs started in and I flipped on the spot light. 5 deer inside the electric fence in the orchard. 1 got lead poisoned from a .243. I took the time to put boots on and grab a .357 to go down and confirm a clean kill. When I got to the deer I heard a noise an turned the remote spot light to there. A deer had come back in just 15 min.. He promptly fell of the same illness. It was midnight before both were hanging dressed and heart and livers were soaking. Friday night my boss, his son and my mother are coming over for dinner (baked stuffed heart) after the meat is in bags ready to freeze. Heart, new potatoes, garden salad,20 min sweet corn, and baked apples. It just doesn't get better.