Following up I just scored a Sandra Rose and an Attika from C&O - they had a two-tree minimum. I may just plant them in the same hole if I can't find a good spot for the extra. They are going to need some shade cloth on hot days, I have found cherries hard to establish late. But they will still be ahead of planting them in the fall or next spring. Frank, I haven't been very positive on cherries but my problem has been not paying them enough attention. This year I sprayed them with my stone fruits and I now have bug-free fruits. I usually don't get cracking problems, but when cracking is bad its really bad. With the bugs controlled I have also missed the brown rot problems (and, with the Surround for the bugs I also include some disease protectants). Scott

Thanks for the recipes, I find that as interesting as the fruit. Those pictures sold me too, and the reviews, and Scott even though he sights the brown rot problem, always rated it high anyway. Any suggestions on how to handle brown rot prevention welcome. My tree is on Citation, but Lovell is available too. Depends what nursery you order from. I have observed that citation makes the trees have a larger caliper at a younger age. The trees look awesome. Lovell seems to produce slimer, but taller trees. I had Arctic Glo on both. The citation failed to branch low after a knee high cut. The tree was too old, my bad, my inexperience. I replaced with one on Lovell, and left the lowest structure on. So taller than knee high, but still can be kept small. I was also attracted to Arctic Glo and Red Raspberry (both nectarines) also because of the beautiful color, and the acid flavor. Here's a poor photo of Red Raspberry. " Developed by the California Rare Fruit Growers' Hybridizer Group. A rare nectarine with rich red flesh reminiscent of the old "Indian Red" peaches. It is the result of crossing red-fleshed peaches with white nectarines and re-crossing the subsequent seedlings. Small to medium sized fruit has dark burgundy skin with flesh streaked in red and a juicy, melting texture. The flavor is unique: rich and complex, very sweet but with a pleasant tartness similar to raspberry" I really wish i had more room. Maybe after I move I can add it. I will lose all current trees when i do, so they are certainly just experiments for now. I need to move in 4 or 5 years.

What is the advantage of a Damson over sweeter European types? I have some trees here on an orchard I manage loaded with tiny Damsons and no one wants them. When I've cooked them I don't find a more flavorful result and instead they have a slight bitterness and need much more sugar for culinary use. Three full sized trees loaded with these beautiful plums and they are all going to waste. Maybe it's all you can easily grow further south of Euro types (I'm in southeastern NY). Plum curculio does seem less interested in them. Maybe I'm missing something. I can't imagine someone who has access to ripe, rich, sugar sweet Valor plums preferring Damson.

I think you would get a better response on the fruit forum but here is my 2 cents: ---APPLES--- While you can fruit just about any apple irregardless of how many chill hours is claimed it needs, you must consider that some apples will turn to mush in a hot summer area (some apples need a cool summer to taste their best) ditto for blazing Indian summers (fall). I have not heard anything about Honeycrisp being an option in warmer areas but it could be that no one has experimented with it yet. Fuji, Golden Delicious, White Winter Pearmain, Anna, Dorsett Golden, Newtown Pippin have been tried and proved excellent (I live in a hot inland valley). There are some excellent books on apples, Apples for the 21st Century is one, there is a good eBook on growing apples in Riverside (applenut is on this forum) I think the website is Kuffelcreek.com. Honeycrisp aug Winter hardy tree from the University of Minnesota. Fruit is crisp and juicy with an aromatic flavor. Striped red over yellow color. Stores well. Ripens from late September to late October. Patent # 7197 Ashmead's Kernel sept Widely regarded as one of the all-time best-flavored apples. Small to medium-sized fruit; variable shape, often lop-sided. Greenish to golden brown russet skin with reddish highlights. Creamy yellow flesh is aromatic, crisp and sweet. Fruit picked early is somewhat sharp and acidic, but mellows after a few weeks off the tree. Ripens after Red Delicious, about with Golden Delicious. Keeps 3-4 months. Used for dessert, cider and sauce. Resistant to powdery mildew, somewhat resistant to apple scab. Winter hardy tree, begins bearing at young age. From England, discovered in the early 1700s. Estimated chilling requirement 800-1000 hours. Partly self-fruitful, biggest crops with cross-pollination. Yellow Newton Pippin oct Yellow-green, late, firm, crisp, slightly tart, superb flavor. For peak flavor and acid/sugar balance, wait to harvest til cheeks are yellowish-green (late Oct./ early Nov. in Central Calif.). Good keeper. Famous for cooking, excellent fresh or dried. Vigorous tree. 700 hours. Self-fruitful. ---APRICOTS--- What? no Blenheim? It's one of the best! Too fragile for shipping so you HAVE to grow your own. It's held in very high esteem by David Karp (along with Green Gage plums). If you get 600 chill hours I would definitely check out Harcot - while I have neither grown or tasted it I've only read excellent reports. Flavor Delight is delicious, I do grow that one. Flora Gold EARLY JUNE All-purpose freestone. Early harvest, 2-3 weeks before Blenheim (Royal). Very good quality, reliable producer (produces when other vareties don't). Good choice for backyard apricot. 500 hours. Self-fruitful. (Zaiger) Flavor Delight Aprium® interspecific JUN 5 Resembles an apricot but with a distinctive flavor and texture all its own. Pleasant, lingering after taste. Early June. 600 hours. Bigger crops if pollinated by any apricot. Pat.No. 7090 (Zaiger) Autumn Glo AUG Late season apricot with tremendous flavor. Ripens in the first two weeks of August. Fruit is medium sized with good color. One of the highest-scoring apricot varieties at Dave Wilson Nursery fruit tastings. ---PLUOTS--- Dapple Dandy is a very, very good pluot, bears well, looks beautiful, tastes better than just about any plum. Flavor Supreme Pluot® interspecific JUN 15 Taste test winner. Plum-apricot hybrid with sweet, richly flavored, firm red flesh. Greenish-maroon mottled skin. June harvest in Central California, about two weeks before Santa Rosa. 5-600 hours. Pollinated by Santa Rosa, Late Santa Rosa, or other Pluot®. Pat. No. 6763. (Zaiger) Flavor Grenade Pluot® interspecific SEP 1 Elongated green fruit with a red blush. Crisp texture and explosive flavor.. Taste-test winner. Hangs on the tree for 4 to 6 weeks. Pollenate with a Japanese plum. Estimated chill requirement: 500 to 600 hours. Patent No. 12097. (Zaiger) ---PLUMS--- I grow Weeping Santa Rosa - beautiful small tree (cut off any upright branches) delicious fruit, better than regular Santa Rosa. Laroda is supposed to be good one too. And Elephant Heart. You can always graft some other cultivars onto whatever you plant for variety (like some yellow plums). Beauty JUN 15 Sweet, flavorful plum, more widely adapted than Santa Rosa (more productive in coastal climates). Red overyellow skin, amber flesh streaked red. Ripens June in Central Calif. 250 hours. Self-fruitful. Weeping Santa Rosa Semi-Dwarf JUL 1 One of the most flavorful, aromatic Japanese plums when fully ripe. Beautiful 8-10 ft. tree, weeping growth habit - long slender limbs bow gracefully to the ground. Easily espaliered. 400 hours. Self-fruitful. Laroda AUG 5 Dark purple fruit similar to Santa Rosa, but larger and 5-6 weeks later. Excellent flavor, juicy, one of the best. Prolonged harvest: mid-July to mid-August. 400 hours. Pollenizer required: Santa Rosa, Catalina, or Nubiana. Emerald Beaut SEP 1 One of the highest-rated plums in blind fruit tastings at Dave Wilson Nursery. Light green skin, greenish-yellow to orange freestone flesh. Harvest begins late August in Central Calif. Ripe fruit continues to sweeten, becoming exceptionally sweet, but remaining crisp and crunchy. Ripe fruit holds on tree longer than any other stone fruit - two months or more! 6-700 hours. Pollenizer required: Beauty, Burgundy, Late Santa Rosa, Nubiana, Flavor King Pluot®. Pat. No. 9162. (Zaiger) Elephant Heart (NOT taste WINNER) SEP 1 Home-orchard favorite-large, heart-shaped fruit with sweet, juicy, richly flavored, firm red flesh. Dark reddish-purple mottled skin. Long harvest season-September in Central Calif. Hardy, heavy bearing. 500 hours. Pollinate with Beauty or Santa Rosa. ---CHERRIES--- I WISH I could grow Craig's Crimson! Whatever you grown, keep it small and throw bird-netting over it or you'll be lucky to get even one cherry. Craig's Crimson MAY Self-fruitful, natural semi-dwarf, perhaps the finest sweet cherry: dark red to nearly black, medium to large size, wonderful spicy flavor, very firm texture. Mature tree size about 2/3 of standard (smaller when budded onto Colt or Mahaleb rootstock). Mid-season. 800 hours. Pat. No. 7320.(Zaiger) Royal Rainier MAY 15 Large yellow cherry with slightly more red blush than Rainier. Excellent flavor, taste test winner. Ripens early, about 3 to 5 days ahead of Rainier. Estimated chill requirement: 600 - 700 hours. Van JUN 5 Very cold hardy, reliable, heavy bearing. Fine fruit similar to Bing, though usually smaller. Pollenizer required-interfruitful with all popular sweet cherries. 700 hours. ---FIGS--- I grow Violette de Bordeaux - my favorite, deep red, complex flavor. Janice Seedless doesn't compare it's just sweet, but good. I also grow Panache which is also delicious but I understand it doesn't grow well (taste good) everywhere. It seems to need a long hot season. Mission is a classic but it's a HUGE tree, I can't imagine planting that with two others in a hole. Janice Seed-Less Kadota AUG 10 New "white" fig. Large, sweet, delicious, light greenish-yellow fruit with practically no seeds. Prolonged harvest, August through November at Fremont, California. Suited to coastal and inland climates. Prune to any shape. 100 hours. Self-fruitful. Patent Pending. Celestial AUG 10 Purplish-brown skin, pink flesh. Widely adapted. Two crops per year - early summer and late summer to early fall. Prune to any shape. 100 hours. Self-fruitful. Black Mission AUG 10 The favorite. Purplish-black skin, strawberry- colored flesh, rich flavor. Heavy bearing, long-lived, large tree. Coast or inland. Fresh/dry/can. 100 hours. Self-fruitful. ---PEACHES & WHITE PEACHES--- So many excellent peaches to choose from...have a look at Bay Laurel Nursery catalog. Baby Crawford would definitely be on my list. Sugar May JUN 10 White-fleshed, sweetest peach of its season - mid-June, about one month before Babcock. Very juicy and sweet with fine flavor. High fruit-tasting scores. Excellent choice for early season peach. Medium to large size with attractive red skin. Estimated chilling requirement 600 - 700 hours. Self-fruitful. Pat.No. 8034 (Zaiger) Veteran JUL 10 One of the most reliable peaches for cold climates: winter hardy and late-blooming. Yellow to yellow-orange skin. Yellow flesh is freestone when fully ripe, and richly flavored. Harvest one week before Elberta. 900 hours. Self-fruitful. Loring JUL 20 Taste test winner. Superb large yellow freestone. Excellent flavor and texture, low acid. Harvests over 2-3 week period, mid to late July in central CA. Requires little or no thinning. Excellent for home orchard. 750 hours. Self-fruitful. Indian Free AUG 20 Taste test winner: one of the all-time highest-rated fruits at Dave Wilson Nursery fruit tastings. Large, firm freestone with crimson and cream-colored flesh. Tart until fully ripe, then highly aromatic with a rich, distinctive flavor. Highly resistant tto peach leaf curl. Late season. 700 hours. Another nectarine needed to pollinate. ---NECTARINES & WHITE NECTARINES--- I grow Arctic Star and so far I'm not thrilled. The flavor has been watery but could be culture (although I know not to water too much if at all when the fruit is ripening). I'd love to grow Liz's Late. I chose Heavenly White for a family member in Central Calif. and I've heard excellent reports of Independence. Arctic Star JUN 10 Early-season, super sweet, white fleshed nectarine. Low in acid, no tartness. Rave reviews in trial tastings. Semi-freestone with beautiful dark red skin. Harvest approximately June 10th to 30th at Hickman, Calif. Self-fruitful. Pat. No. 9332. (Zaiger) Flavortop JUL 15 Firm, yellow freestone with excellent quality. One of the highest scoring nectarines varieties in DWN fruit tastings. One of the very best! Ripens in mid-July in Central California, between Independence and Fantasia.Susceptible to bacterial spot and tender to winter cold. Large showy blossoms. 650 hours. Self-fruitful. Liz's Late Nectarine AUG 25 Sprightly-sweet, intense, spicy flavor - the State of the Art in fruit breeding. Overall score of 7.5 at the August 25, 1995 Dave Wilson Nursery fruit tasting - one of the highest scores for any yellow nectarine or peach to date. Late August to early September in Central California. 600-700 hours. Self-fruitful. Pat.No. 9437. (Zaiger) NO TASTE TESTS DATA....but still on my list..... ---PERSIMMON --- I did alot of research on Persimmons - I grow four in a hole, Chocolate (male blossoms to pollinate the "cinnamon" persimmons), Hiyakume (I chose this over Coffeecake because all reports were mediocre for Coffeecake), Suruga and Maru. I haven't tasted Chocolate yet (only a couple fruit but the squirrels have tasted it) the others are excellent. Don't miss out on Saijo - it's supposed to be like caramel, the name means "the best one." Bay Laurel has it. I'm not a fan of crisp persimmons, I grew up with Hachiya which is a fine cultivar too. Soft Chocolate Small to medium size, oblong, bright red skin. Sweet, spicy, firm, brown flesh, superb flavor-the choice of connoisseurs. Astringent until ripe. 200 hours. Self-fruitful. Firm Fuyu - Jiro ("Apple Persimmon") Medium size, flat shape, still hard when ripe, non-astringent. Cool or hot climate. Hardy, attractive tree, practically pest free. Fall harvest. 200 hours. Self-fruitful. Firm Coffeecake (Nishimura Wase) Anxious Fuyu lovers, who await the fall harvest with great anticipation can now experience an expanded season of delectable persimmon flavors. CoffeeCake persimmon, pollinated by Fuyu Imoto and ripening a month earlier, has a unique spicy-sweet flavor that instantly brings to mind images of cinnamon pastry, hot coffee and morning sunshine. If you are considering a Fuyu...plant it together with CoffeeCake for the perfect persimmon experience. CoffeeCake's spicy complexity contrasts with the delicate, sweet, flavor of Fuyu. Both varieties are flat-shaped, non-astringent, and eaten while still firm. Consider this: Romeo and Juliet, Laurel and Hardy, Mark and Sammy, sugar and spice, peaches and cream, CoffeeCake and Fuyu! Tamopan Large, flat-shaped fruit with thick, reddish-orange skin and light orange flesh. Flesh is astringent until soft-ripe. Vigorous, heavy-bearing tree. 200 hours. Self-fruitful. ---POMEGRANITE--- I personally wouldn't bother with Wonderful, it's just too ubiquitous. There are so many other "wonderful" pomegranates to try, do a search on GardenWeb, JoeReal has tried them all (or nearly) and has compared them. Wonderful Large, purple-red fruit with delicious, tangy flavor. Best quality in hot inland climate. Gaudy red-orange bloom, ornamental foliage. Long-lived, any soil. 150 hours. Self-fruitful. Eversweet Very sweet, virtually seedless fruit. (Even immature fruits are sweet.) Red skin, clear (non-staining) juice. Harvest late summer through fall. Coast or inland. 8-10 ft. arching shrub, or train as tree or espalier. Large, showy, orange-red flowers. 150 hours. Self-fruitful. Pat. No. 5418 Kashmir Blend Medium size pomegranate with light pink-red exterior. Ruby red seeds have intense flavor with no overbearing acidic taste. Plant has a slightly spreading growth habit and can also be grown as a tree. Keep any height with summer pruning. Excellent source of antioxidants- eat fresh or use in cooking. Requires 150-200 chill hours. Self fruitful. ---Paw Paw--- Maybe you'll have better luck but on CRFG garden tours the hosts usually point abjectly in the direction of the pawpaws and just say it's over there. Not much luck getting these to fruit in the Mediterranean climate. I hope this helps. Grafting is fun and easy to learn and do. JoeReal has a tutorial video on that too. Rebecca's Gold PawPaw From California. Large, late season fruit. Paw paws are slow-growing, deciduous, pyramidal-shaped trees with large, tropical-looking leaves. Fruit has custard-like texture and delicious, banana-like flavor. Harvest just as skin turns greenish-yellow and fruit begins to soften - in about October. ---lucia in west coco county ios_lrh@yahoo.com