Self taught Chemistry lesson for making acidic water

11 years ago

Let me start off by saying: WOW! HOLY &^*#!

I am an avid gardener and decided that i wanted to plant blueberries and other fruit bushes. After having read all about them I decided that I could grow them, i'd just need to make a shortcut to make the soil they live in more acidic. Blueberries like a PH of somewhere around 4.5-5.5 to produce good fruit. Our soil around here is often a high 7 due to dissolved limestone. Here's where my chemistry lesson starts to unfold.

I decided that i could make my own acidic water to lower the PH of the soil around these blueberries. At this point i'm thinking i'm pretty smart. Should be easy to do. After about 3 failed attempts to hardware stores and other places i found an auto parts store that carried Sulfuric acid for car batteries. Hmmm, Now if i dilute it down with water i can slowly lower the PH of my soil by simply hauling water to my bushes.

Fast forward to my garage this evening. I have the 6 qt box propped up and cut the tip off the hose. I jam a tear dropper in the nozzle to get a small sample to test with some PH strips my buddy hooked me up with. Immediately battery acid squirts past the dropper and onto the floor and a bit on my hand. I rush to the sink to rinse off the burning acid. Okay...I guess I need gloves. Should'a paid attention in chemistry class. Luckily i was already wearing glasses. Meanwhile, the floor is sizzling and turning white. Okay....I need baking soda. Crap! I run to the deep freeze in my garage only to find that the box is missing (probably from some other emergency use). I grab some bleach after a quick google to see if it is in fact a base. I pour it on and hope that an explosion does not occur. Finally crisis diverted and the mess is somewhat neutralized.

So, on with the experiment. I grab a small glass tupperware bowl and meter out a miniscule amount into the glass with plastic bags over my hands because apparently my wife hid the rubber gloves somewhere between our house and Limbo. I use the dropper to add real close to 2 tsp to a cup of water. The PH strip just stared at me unfazed like i was an idiot. Okay, 3 more cups of water....still nothing. More water...more water. I take my ratio up to 16 cups of water and finally i see a sign that my PH is coming up above the previous mark that was less than a 1. I'm now up to 32 cups of water and barely reading a 4.0. Only two teaspoons of battery acid in my experiment equates to me having approximately enough acid to mix 1152 gallons of water for approximately 7 blueberry bushes. (that is approximately 230 - five gallon buckets!)And thats if I go with a 4.0 mix and not a 4.5.

When the sales clerk asked me which size I wanted, I'm glad I opted for the 6 qt acid container instead of the 5 gallon! I wish I paid closer attention in Chemistry class.

Has anybody else experimented and have a more precise ratio on how to achieve a 4.0 - 4.5 water mixture using battery acid?

Featured Answer

sshrivastava

8 years ago

I know this is an old thread, but in case anyone is searching on this topic... I've noticed that my plants love it when it rains, they are perky and refreshed in a way that I don't see after watering or fertilizing. I decided to simulate rainwater by adjusting my tap water pH down from 7.4 to 5.5. My adjusted pH is somewhere in the 5.0-6.0 range due to small dosing inaccuracies. I acidify my water using sulfuric acid @ ~32% concentration (battery acid 1.28 mol).

I've been using it with tablespoons as well as 1CC droppers and have no issues whatsoever. The acid is pretty safe to use if you take some basic precautions and aren't sloppy about it. Even so, it's not that strong of a concentration to do any real harm as long as you're close to a hose and don't get any in your eyes. Wear glasses just in case.

My plants absolutely LOVE the lower pH water. They look perky and refreshed just like they do after a rainstorm. There are other beneficial effects as well. My seeds appear to be sprouting much faster than usual, the compost clumps that are sitting atop my soil have started to seriously break down finally, and my soil retains more moisture than it did before switching to lower pH water w/ sulfuric acid.

Bottom line: My plants like it and I have noticed only positive effects. I will continue watering them with acidified water.

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Comments (94)

alan haigh
11 years ago
Hammilton, did you read the preceding posts?
User
11 years ago
Hammilton,

Please read the entire thread. Sulfuric acid has to be pure to US gov standards no matter what the %.

Subpart B: Listing of Specific Substances Affirmed as GRAS (generally recognized as safe)

184.1095 - Sulfuric acid.

From the feds.

Title 21: Food and Drugs

CHAPTER I: FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES (CONTINUED)

SUBCHAPTER B: FOOD FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION (CONTINUED)

PART 184: DIRECT FOOD SUBSTANCES AFFIRMED AS GENERALLY RECOGNIZED AS SAFE

Subpart B: Listing of Specific Substances Affirmed as GRAS

184.1095 - Sulfuric acid.

(a) Sulfuric acid (H2SO4, CAS Reg. No. 7664-93-9), also known as oil of vitriol, is a clear, colorless, oily liquid. It is prepared by reacting sulfur dioxide (SO2) with oxygen and mixing the resultant sulfur trioxide (SO3) with water, or by reacting nitric oxide (NO) with sulfur dioxide and water.

(b) The ingredient meets the specifications of the ?Food Chemicals Codex,? 3d Ed. (1981), pp. 317-318, which is incorporated by reference. Copies may be obtained from the National Academy Press, 2101 Constitution Ave. NW., Washington, DC 20418, or may be examined at the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA). For information on the availability of this material at NARA, call 202-741-6030, or go to:
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Hammilton
11 years ago
The GRAS bit is good to know, and I haven't yet checked, but I'm fairly certain that GRAS status doesn't apply to technical grades (though I could well be wrong)

However, to suggest that the sulfuric acid available in battery acid is "pure" is absolutely ridiculous. Consider the results for reagent grade sulfuric acid (http://www.chem.agilent.com/Library/applications/5988-9190EN.pdf). It's strange that they found that much
titanium in it, but that's not an element I'd worry about.

You can find the standards for technical grades here:
http://www.sulphuric-acid.com/techmanual/Properties/properties_acid_quality.htm#Federal Specification O-S-801

As you can see, "pure" is not a requirement for federal standards. Where did this notion come from?

Hammilton
User
11 years ago
Hammilton,

The fact you just registered today means you are either a troll or a previous poster on this thread that just could not take being proved wrong lol......

Would you prefer if we said there is nothing in the sulfuric that is harmful? The government says it is fine to use......the university of Florida says it is fine to use and IS THE PREFERRED acid to use.
alan haigh
11 years ago
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-558.html

Here is information that specifically recommends using sulfuric acid acquired from auto part stores as battery acid for use in the reduction of pH of irrigation water of food crops from North Carolina State University. I should think this would close this argument.
User
11 years ago
Thanks Harvestman. Perhaps that will satisfy Hammilton/Maven, but I doubt it.

When I bought my 5 gallons of sulfuric no where on the box does it say battery acid, simply says sulfuric acid 33%.
User
11 years ago
Safety. Citric acid, 75% phosphoric acid and 35% sulfuric acid are relatively safe to work with as compared to the 67% nitric acid (Table 1). Nitric acid is very caustic and can cause serious injury to exposed tissue, especially eyes. Since nitric acid can also fume during handling, take care to avoid breathing fumes.
fruitmaven_wiz5
11 years ago
I've been burned by both nitric acid and sulfuric acid, and neither one is good. If not washed off quickly, both do serious damage to tissue and eyes. I consider them equivalent. It's been a very informative discussion on soil chemistry, and I've followed it, but it's rediculous to suggest I've made a pseudonym. Hamilton sounds like a chemist, but also like he didn't read all the posts thoroughly.

I told you, I'm not debating sulfuric acid's efficacy. You are satisfied with the purity of your acid, fine. Great. But I think it's stupid to use a chainsaw when a hand pruner will do. Strong acid is clearly more dangerous, and there are better options for the home grower. I did say Home Grower, commercial people should be trained to handle their chemicals safely. They usually are more concerned with speed and cost, and shortest time to profits. Thank goodness most home growers are different!
mrtexas
11 years ago
"You can pour the 33% sulfuric on your dry hands with no problem either. I paid $32 for 5 gallons of sulfuric acid. As Fruitnut said sulfuric is the only suitable acid. There is a reason the universities recommend it for this purpose."

Maybe so but I'll not put my hands in battery acid.

Well fruitnut, I will have to respectfully disagree.
alan haigh
11 years ago
I don't understand why it should be such a danger to handle su. acid and even a serious hobbyist would seem to benefit from using it over alternatives based on its ability to bind bicarbonate. That is, besides the alternative of capturing rain water from ones roof, which for most of us would seem to be the preferred way to go.

If you wear a good pair of goggles, gloves and maybe a chemical resistant apron there just isn't any appreciable risk I can see.
fruitmaven_wiz5
11 years ago
I had the opportunity to ask an authority on the subject.

Lee ReichMay 27, 2012 8:19 PM

Sulfuric acid would do the job but I would strongly advise against using it. The stuff is highly corrosive to you and many materials, and would have to be diluted appropriately. Much wiser would be to use elemental sulfur, which does eventually become sulfuric acid in the soil, but very dilute. The ideal pH range for blueberry is 4 to 5. Add 3Ã¢ÂÂ4 pound of sulfur per 100 square feet for each pH unit the soil is above 4.5. Use three times this amount of sulfur for heavier soils. Pelletized sulfur, which resembles small, yellow lentils, is easier to spread and cheaper than sulfur powder.
User
11 years ago
Fruitmaven/Hammilton,

I'm not sure what part of the bicarbonate process you STILL don't understand. You can add the sulfur to the soil all you want but if you have to irrigate with high bicarbonate water often you will still have problems. Because the elemental sulfur takes so long to break down and start acidifing the soil it is impossible to counteract the high bicarbonate water. With every watering you are adding bicarbonates....Please read that until it sinks in.

Far as your email......I find it hard to trust a person who would make an alternative posting name just to support their own losing argument. I could post an email purported to be from Bugs Bunny stating acid is great. Even your own email states clearly that the acid will work......didn't you tell us it was poisonous? LMAO

The top university in this country in SHB blueberry research is The University of Florida. They have been responsible for some of the greatest advances in BB research not to mention almost all of the top southern high bush varieties. They tell us to use the acid.....the university of North Carolina tells us to use the acid and that it is safe to use with common sense. Yet you still just can't take the fact you were wrong.
User
11 years ago
"Maybe so but I'll not put my hands in battery acid"

Who in their right mind would?

Again though I will point out you can pour the stuff in your dry palm and hold it there with ZERO damage or pain. If it splashes on your arms it will sting after a few seconds but all you have to do is wash it off or even just wipe it off with a paper towel with no damage. The acid needs moisture to activate, that is why it is dangerous to the eyes. Your and Maven/Hammiltons reliance on old wives tales and Saturday morning cartoons as to the danger of sulfuric acid simply baffles me.
fruitmaven_wiz5
11 years ago
O. M. G. I didn't make an alternate name. I don't know who Hamilton is.

Soil sulfur and acidic water from vinegar is sufficient. I'm done reading this thread.
fruitmaven_wiz5
11 years ago
Oh, but it wasn't an email. I'm a fan of his blog. If you'd like to see his response for yourself, look at the link below, and find the Thursday, May 24th post. Look at the comments.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lee Reich blog
User
11 years ago
FruitMaven/Hammilton,

So two universities that are widely recognized as experts in BB culture tell us soil sulfur and vinegar are not sufficient and that sulfuric acid is safe and the way to go....Or we can believe you that told us sulfuric acid was poisonous. Tough call there.
alan haigh
11 years ago
I know Lee personally. He's a fine garden writer but no authority on the subject of treating well or municipal water. All you have there in another gardeners opinion- PHD in hort. or no. The link I provided has been vetted by experts in this field, I have to assume.

BR, if Fruitmaven insists he's not writing under an alias I think you should assume it's true- what's the point in disputing that?

FM, you keep saying adding vinegar will accomplish the same thing, but what about the fact that the vinegar quickly breaks down leaving the carbonates active? That was the point that makes me think that using sulfuric acid is a perfectly reasonable approach. Permanent sequestering along with the potential benefit of improving sodic clays.

I believe you are much more conservative about using useful products that carry some risks than most, unless it's the acid thing that is your personal crusade. We have to be just as careful with prescription and even over the counter medicines and many other common products. I guess you are not a big fan of using lye to clear pipes!
User
11 years ago
Harvestman,

Just a feeling......Hammilton writes in exactly the same style as Maven and given the fact Hammilton just registered yesterday after Maven said she was done with the thread. Now wait Hammilton will come along and insist they are not the same person.

Far as the point.....kind of a jab to Maven who refuses to admit the earth is round even when presented with over whelming proof. It annoys me. It is not hard to admit when you are wrong..I have done so twice in this thread alone. In my business life people like this were the first to be fired as you could never trust what they said.
alan haigh
11 years ago
Sure, but he's not working for you and his points have actually helped move the thread along. Sometimes people's logical deductions take them to different places as is the case when you and I discuss global warming. I get just as impatient as you, though, so I probably shouldn't be lecturing.

I'm still waiting for Maven to explain how adding vinegar is at all the equivalent of adding sulfuric acid and how he can be so sure it's an adequate solution for people with particularly problematic irrigation water like yours. It does seem a bit stubborn to me, but more puzzling than irritating.
User
11 years ago
Harvestman,

Good luck, you may be waiting awhile:) People like Maven/Hammilton find it impossible to admit when they are wrong.
glib
11 years ago
Following a related thread in the Vegetables forum, I checked my city water analysis online and found the pH to be 9.3. Any suggestions re: how I can modify my various drip systems to include a source of acid?
fruitmaven_wiz5
11 years ago
BR - I did admit I was wrong. Apparently you're the one with the problem. I'm not Hamilton. The reason he writes like me is probably because he's a chemist. You ask any self-respecting chemist about using sulfuric acid on blueberries and they are horrified. Especially since we know how pure (or not) the reagents we use in lab are. And we've seen the inside of a chemical factory, and what can happen when acids are not handled correctly! Lee Reich is a former chemist, so I'm not surprised he's also conservative about acids.

I'm lucky I don't have to deal with such overwhelming bicarbonates in my soil and water, so using soil sulfur and rainwater is fine for me. If you use soil sulfur in conjunction with acetic acid, it shouldn't matter that the acetic acid doesn't permanently neutralize the bicarbonates. The sulfur added to the soil will take care of it once the acetic acid breaks down. Honestly BR, do what you like. I don't live in FL, I don't deal with your issues. I think for most of the home gardeners in this country, it's just not necessary.

Glib, sorry I don't have a suggestion as to how to incorporate acid into your irrigation system.

Harvestman, I'm a she. Not a big deal, just clarifying.
alan haigh
11 years ago
Fruitmavin, I think it is presumptuous to say "you ask ANY self respecting chemist about using sulfuric acid and they are horrified". That is not a reasonable argument because being a chemist doesn't mean you know how others feel about using this substance in this context- why should anyone take you at your word without some kind of verification. I'm always suspicious of people who use this tact, creating an imaginary panel of experts.

This is a product that is sold in auto part stores and clearly it is commonly used by plenty of morons and I've never read anything in the sensational press about it leading to tragedies, so it can't be all that dangerous. I don't see how it's more risky to add it to a water tank than to pour it into a battery- if anything it takes less coordination to pour it into a wide mouthed tank- much less risk of splash-back.

And then there is the university based recommendations which make it quite clear to me that using this substance is quite safe because they are based on what must be a pretty wide range of expertise.

So, how do you feel about clearing drains with lye?
MrClint
11 years ago
Overloading the buffering capacity of your water using acid is more of a fake out than anything else. It gives you an acidic pH number and that's about it. You are still left with the general hardness of magnesium and calcium. In a small scale operation you will be better served by using "soft" water such as distilled, R/O or rainwater in combination with your application of soil sulfur.

It should also be noted that soil sulfur, acetic acid (vinegar) and citric acid are the only acidiÃ¯Â¬Âers that are acceptable for organic blueberry production.
User
11 years ago
Mrclint,

It is not a fake out.....the acid transforms the bicarbonates to Gypsum. The gypsum is PH neutral and that reaction is permanent. You still don't understand....you could acidify the water to a point where the PH does not even fall 1 point and the water would still be transformed from horrible for BB to great for BB.

Universities that specialize in growing blueberries recommend the acid.....we showed that in black and white. So tell us what qualifies your opinion as being better than those scientists that have spent their entire careers in the field.
User
11 years ago
Fruitmaven/Hammilton,

Exactly when did you admit you were wrong? When you said Sulfuric acid is poisonous? When you claimed that every chemist in the world agrees with you? When you claimed that if the acid touched metal it would spontaneously explode and destroy half of the town? Just trying to clarify.......

The government lists sulfuric as GRAS (generally regarded as safe). The universities state it is safe to work with. You can ship the acid by UPS for heavens sake. The acid is so deadly that 5 gallon lots of it are sold in poly bags inside a cardboard box. Not only can home owners buy the 33% sulfuric we can also buy the 97% sulfuric acid 55 gallons at a time why is this if the stuff is as deadly as you claim?
MrClint
11 years ago
I think you meant to say, "Universities that specialize in growing blueberries recommend the acid for large scale commercial operations...". It wouldn't be profitable to use actual soft water unless you had it already on hand and in large quantities.

Having worked with water chemistry for over 30 years as an aquarist, I can tell you that you will still have a fair amount of general hardness (dGH), salts, dissolved solids and such left behind after you acidify your water. High pH and high dGH occur naturally with water as does the converse. pH and dGH go hand in hand. This is why I said lowering the pH and not the dGH is a fake out.

I'm on board with Harvestman in that I think pH of the water for BB is only part of the story. There are other factors such as humic acids in the soil that influence the actual pH at the end of the day. Blueberries do love rainwater, which is a naturally occurring low dGH/pH type of water.

I don't think there is anything I'm saying here that disputes what has been said already.
User
11 years ago
Mr. Clint,

We have something in common then as I used to have a 50% stake in a wholesale tropical fish operation. I got led to that business from breeding and raising discus.

The link I posted from the University of Florida says nothing about it being for commercial BB growers only. If the professionals say it is the best way to treat the water why so much resistance?

I do agree there is more to raising BB than just the water but the water is almost as important as the soil. I have grown them my entire life. We all have different ground water and different requirements. Sulfuric acid is not the boogey man and the over the top hysterical fear mongering over it in this thread is just plain silly.
MrClint
11 years ago
Folks, I don't think that the pH of your water - in and of itself - is as important as this thread claims for the small scale home gardener. Here's a link from a reputable vendor that is geared toward the home grower: CARE OF SOUTHERN HIGHBUSH BLUEBERRIES. I've been following this document loosely for a while now and have had some nice crops. It makes no mention of using acidified water.

Now that I think more about it, one could argue that giving folks the impression that they absolutely must acidify their water in order to grow blueberries is fear mongering or at least disingenuous. If you feel the need to doctor your water go ahead and do so, but it is not a requirement.
alan haigh
11 years ago
Mr. Clint, I think that is a false equivalency. Bamboo Rabbit never said that it was the only way, just that it is reasonably safe and according to many experts, one of the best ways. He was also sharing his considerable personal experience, which I always find to be the most useful aspect of this forum. I can use google to find links.

It is an interesting question, though, if treating the water is ever absolutely necessary to grow healthy blueberries when storing enough rainwater isn't possible or too difficult. I think BR is saying that in his situation it is necessary.
User
11 years ago
Mr. Clint,

It is all about the water at your house.....at my house our groundwater comes from an aquifer that is made up of 100% LIMErock.....due to that our water is high in bicarbonates. No seller of plants is going to advise customers to use acid. Doing so in this litigious society we live in would be harmful to their business.

I currently have 140+ BB plants. When we started planting BB here some years ago I started by acidifying the water. I would scoop water out of the lake we live on and add acid to each bucket. The lake water was much better than the well water though it is the same PH. Over time as I added plants and made more beds that process just became too time consuming so switched strategies. I went to a system of watering with our well water only when it was absolutely necessary to do so to limit the bicarbonate load I was putting on the plants. It works but the plants are never as nice nor as happy as when I was using the acid. I finally decided to just put in a system to acidify the water and you can see the difference in the plants almost immediately when you do.

Each area of the country is different......in many areas of the country acid would not be needed even if the water PH is high because they get enough rainfall. This is not about having to use acid to be successful as you don't. But the acid is an option for those that need it or want the plants growing in 100% ideal conditions.

Saying I am fear mongering for mentioning a University recommended and approved watering program, seriously? I never once said you had to do anything to be successful with blueberries. My plants fruited well when I restricted their water but not as well as they could have. Using that method of growing takes a lot of experience as it was easy to get the plants too dry and burn them. This acid system is incredibly easy. This board is about discussing options and techniques and I was simply trying to set the record straight over Fruitmavens/Hammiltons over the top hysterics about sulfuric acid. The misinformation she peppered this thread with was simply a disservice to the community.

No need for acid this week as Beryl dumped 4 glorious inches of rain on us overnight.
User
11 years ago
Harvestman,

I think that is half the problem......people are up in arms like we are saying they are abusing their plants because they don't use acid. We had a couple acres of BB up north, never used acid on them once, never used pine bark on them or peat moss had no need to even though our water PH was high. We also irrigated the plants maybe 3-5 times per YEAR as our rainfall was adequate.

Here in Florida I am irrigating the bushes 2-3 times a WEEK every week for 3-4 months until our rains start. For anyone that has high PH and bicarbonate water AND must irrigate frequently the BB will do much much better if the water is acidified. The easiest and most cost effective way to do that is with sulfuric acid.....that is simply a fact.

It is like some people are arguing it is cruel to let the dog sleep outside at night because they live in Minnesota and just can't understand that other people live in a much warmer climate where doing so is just fine.
MrClint
11 years ago
Hman, BR said:
"...but the water is almost as important as the soil."

That is what I am disputing. It simply isn't true, especially if you keep a few in pots. In following this thread it occurred to me that having to work with acids and then keeping a close eye on pH readings -- would be a bit daunting for someone that just wants to try a few BB in pots.

"I can use google to find links."

That's what makes the web the great equalizer. Gardenweb threads such as this one are web links too. We all post web links from time to time. Admittedly, not all links are equal but this one comes from a reputable dealer that has a vested interest in providing useful information to home gardeners. That's a pretty good filter to apply. Please point out where it is wrong rather than brushing it aside as just a link. I'm not a self-proclaimed expert, but I can link to actual experts that put their money were their mouth is.

"The easiest and most cost effective way to do that is with sulfuric acid.....that is simply a fact."

In the spirit of full disclosure, it is the most cost effective non-organic way. Non-organic isn't necessarily evil, it's just a fact worth noting. Would you acknowledge that being organic is important to some folks?

I'm just trying to add some balance to this discussion, which still has a rather exclusive and heavy handed tone.
User
11 years ago
mrclint,

I disagree....if you don't think water is important to the BB stop watering them for a couple weeks. The water is almost as important as the soil....if you don't understand why, well that is the problem. If you have good water where you live then it may not be an issue but it is important to those who have high bicarbonate water.

Sure I would agree organic is important to some people. It is important to some people to dress their poodles up in pink coats. It is is also important to some people to worship potatoes shaped like famous people so don't see your point. Organic simply means naturally occurring. Organic is simply a marketing ploy to lure naive people in to paying 3 times more for the same food. I could dump crude oil on your lettuce and it would still be organic. This is coming from someone who uses no insecticide at all in their vegetable garden and no chemical fertilizer. Sulfuric acid does not occur naturally on this planet so can not be organic. so? Sulfuric acid diluted with water and applied to the bushes results in berries that are identical to organic and contain NOTHING hazardous or even traceable, they are exactly the same. It is listed as GRAS by the government. The only result of using the acid is bigger healthier bushes that produce more fruit for those who have problematic water.
alan haigh
11 years ago
Please Mr Clint, don't take the bait. I don't think we need to tack on a heated debate about the merits of organic gardening now, we've all BTDT.

It's fine to have mentioned that sulfuric acid does not meet current regulations, there are some here that will probably find that fact instructive.
User
11 years ago
Harvestman,

He brought up organic....not sure how that is baiting. I must have missed the organic thread, shame. I am very picky about what goes on my plants as I know it ends up inside my wife and I. I also steer away from most store bought meat due to the chemicals. I raise my own meat, rabbits, quail and ducks. If the acid had anything in it that could harm the BB I would not use it. That fact to me seems to completely nullify the organic debate.
franktank232
11 years ago
I've always used rainwater...i'll continue to do so. Interesting thread, but way too long!
User
11 years ago
Frank,

Rain water is best.
alan haigh
11 years ago
Sorry, BR, I didn't mean you were intentionally baiting, but the comparisons you made such as dressing up poodles in pink coats might not seem very respectful of organic believers.

Yes, we've had some interesting and heated discussions here on the subject, but most of the current participants accept the practicality of using a few choice chemicals to get fruit- especially those of us in humid conditions.
marc5
11 years ago
For those interested in further reading, I recommend Dr. Carl Whitcomb's book on plants in containers. He pioneered much of what we now know about soil and water and growing plants. He believes that knowing the bicarbonate level in your water is critical, because the more you water your plants, the more the bicarbonates build up in the containers--or in your outdoor planting. I took his advice in irrigating my pawpaws. Based upon his recommendations, I add 6cc of sulfuric acid to 50 gallons of water. Horrors......yes, he advises the use of sulfuric acid found at your local auto parts store. I'm not looking to move the pH much--just cancel out the bicarbonates.

For those of you using rainwater off your roof......it can be a great idea, but be aware of your roof material before using the water. Part of my roof is copper, and after a rainstorm, the grass around my downspout gets very brown--nearly dies.

Marc
mr_pickle
Original Author
11 years ago
I just went back to follow up on this thread and wanted to say thank you to all who participated in this topic.

My experiment yielded me having to mix 5 gallons of municipal water with just 2 tsp of sulfuric acid to effectively lower the PH from roughly 8.5PH down to about 4.7PH. I watered this solution throughout the summer and was rewarded with some berries on first year plants! Considering I had grown a plant previous to this in local soil with local watering techniques and never saw so much as a flower I'll take this as a step in the right direction. Anyway, this summer will be the true test as to the effectiveness of my concoction.

Once again I'd like to thank you all who participated and contributed to this topic. It is probably one of the best threads I have ever been involved in and I certainly think many of us learned a lot or at least had links and information made available to educate ourselves on the subject.

Happy gardening to all and hopefully spring will soon be here. (This darn snow needs to melt!)
mr_pickle
Original Author
11 years ago
I just went back to follow up on this thread and wanted to say thank you to all who participated in this topic.

My experiment yielded me having to mix 5 gallons of municipal water with just 2 tsp of sulfuric acid to effectively lower the PH from roughly 8.5PH down to about 4.7PH. I watered this solution throughout the summer and was rewarded with some berries on first year plants! Considering I had grown a plant previous to this in local soil with local watering techniques and never saw so much as a flower I'll take this as a step in the right direction. Anyway, this summer will be the true test as to the effectiveness of my concoction.

Once again I'd like to thank you all who participated and contributed to this topic. It is probably one of the best threads I have ever been involved in and I certainly think many of us learned a lot or at least had links and information made available to educate ourselves on the subject.

Happy gardening to all and hopefully spring will soon be here. (This darn snow needs to melt!)
User
11 years ago
Mr Pickle,

If you have not already pick up some Ammonium sulfate. Makes the BB grow like they are on steroids:)

Since you resurrected this old thread.....I have switched from using the 33% sulfuric acid to 93% sulfuric acid. Bought a 55 gallon drum of it in fact. Now all I have to use is 2/3 of a cup of acid to 300 gallons of water and that drum will literally last me 20 years.

In my opinion the 93% acid is safer to use than the 33%. The reason is while the 33% has the consistency of water the 93% is more like baby oil so does not splash as readily.

The stuff is bloody heavy......while a 55 gallon drum of water would weigh about 450 pounds the 55 gallon drum of sulfuric acid weighs 750 pounds. Even with a tractor with a front end loader it made me uneasy trying to get it on a stand. I ended up siphoning it in to 3 total barrels to make handling them easier. Used a shop vac to get the siphon started.

This post was edited by bamboo_rabbit on Tue, Apr 9, 13 at 17:31
drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
11 years ago
I'm not a chemist, but a medical technologist, and I don't have a problem working with acid. It beats the HIV virus, the Herpes virus, and the Mycobacterium that causes TB, all of which I have often worked with. Not everybody here is blind to the dangers. Gardeners often work with very dangerous chemicals, and these guys posting in support of using acid are the first to warn you to be careful and follow the book. So yes, gardening even for the backyard gardener can be extremely dangerous.
Noogy
11 years ago
BR,
What's your bedrock consist of? I hope it's not limestone. I'm concerned leaching of the acids might undermine the stability and permanence of your operation. With all the sinkholes giving way it sure would suck to have the whole thing fall into a chasm.
Far -out acid man!
User
11 years ago
Noogy,

The bedrock here is of course limerock.....and yes sinkholes are a problem all over Florida. I mulch heavily so not much of any acid makes it's way to the rock. Even if it did the amounts are so tiny it would make no difference. There are 1000's of acres of BB in Florida and most use the acid and have never heard of the BB farms being swallowed up yet:)
Noogy
11 years ago
Good! That would a terrible situation. I'm in s/w michigan, NHB blueberry central. We have good soil for growing, but deal with the same hard water issues too, with granulated sulfur. Good luck this year.
User
11 years ago
Noogy,

I am from NW PA and the ground there was much better as was the water. Here it is just snow white sand that I dump many many truck loads of wood chips on a year. Luckily the chips are free, delivered and endless. BB season here is in full swing, already have 250 pounds or so in the freezer.
drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
11 years ago
I'm in SE Michigan and unlike the SW it is not NHB territory.Clay city here! I grow them in raised beds. They are just about ready to break bud! Oh water is 7.8 from the Detroit river, I use rainwater when possible (I got some at last yesterday!).

Self taught Chemistry lesson for making acidic water

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