Container size of purchased plants vs. actual plant size

14 years ago

Nurseries will often list fruit trees, bushes and vines for sale according to the size of the pot they come in (e.g. 1 gallon, 5 gallons, etc).

Is there some kind of standard or rule of thumb for what plant size a particular container size should indicate?

For example, if I order a fig tree listed as being in a 5 gallon container from a commercial nursery (although in fact some 5 gallon containers appear to be 3 3/4 gallons in actual fact, but that's another story), what tree size should I expect?

Does anyone know of a list or table somewhere that spells this out?

I'm also interested in getting the same information for fruiting bushes (e.g. blueberries) and fruiting vines (e.g. grapes, blackberries).

Thanks!

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Comments (7)

larry_gene
14 years ago
Apparently the nursery trade goes by container class and size, not container volume

AMERICAN STANDARD FOR NURSERY STOCK

old gardenweb thread

scroll down to container specification table
thisisme
14 years ago
Keep in mind that sizes for nursery stock have no bearing on the size needed to fruit or the size they will need to grow healthy in. Trees in nurseries are notorious for being root bound. Their biggest consideration is how small a pot can I get away with and still have a salable product.
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Ellen & Jenn - A copy/paste job from a reply I wrote on another thread: How large a container can or should be, depends on the relationship between the mass of the plant material you are working with and your choice of soil. We often concern ourselves with "over-potting" (using a container that is too large), but "over-potting" is a term that arises from a lack of a basic understanding about the relationship we will look at, which logically determines appropriate container size. It's often parroted that you should only move up one container size when "potting-up". The reasoning is, that when potting up to a container more than one size larger, the soil will remain wet too long and cause root rot issues, but it is the size/mass of the plant material you are working with, and the physical properties of the soil you choose that determines both the upper & lower limits of appropriate container size - not a formulaic upward progression of container sizes. In many cases, after root pruning a plant, it may even be appropriate to step down a container size or two, but as you will see, that also depends on the physical properties of the soil you choose. Plants grown in slow (slow-draining/water-retentive) soils need to be grown in containers with smaller soil volumes so that the plant can use water quickly, allowing air to return to the soil before root issues beyond impaired root function/metabolism become a limiting factor. We know that the anaerobic (airless) conditions that accompany soggy soils quickly kill fine roots and impair root function/metabolism. We also know smaller soil volumes and the root constriction that accompany them cause plants to both extend branches and gain o/a mass much more slowly - a bane if rapid growth is the goal - a boon if growth restriction and a compact plant are what you have your sights set on. Conversely, rampant growth can be had by growing in very large containers and in very fast soils where frequent watering and fertilizing is required - so it's not that plants rebel at being potted into very large containers per se, but rather, they rebel at being potted into very large containers with a soil that is too slow and water-retentive. This is a key point. We know that there is an inverse relationship between soil particle size and the height of the perched water table (PWT) in containers. As particle size increases, the height of the PWT decreases, until at about a particle size of just under 1/8 inch, soils will no longer hold perched water. If there is no perched water, the soil is ALWAYS well aerated, even when the soil is at container capacity (fully saturated). So, if you aim for a soil (like the gritty mix) composed primarily of particles larger than 1/16", there is no upper limit to container size, other than what you can practically manage. The lower size limit will be determined by the soil volume's ability to allow room for roots to 'run' and to furnish water enough to sustain the plant between irrigations. Bearing heavily on this ability is the ratio of fine roots to coarse roots. It takes a minimum amount of fine rootage to support the canopy under high water demand. If the container is full of large roots, there may not be room for a sufficient volume of the fine roots that do all the water/nutrient delivery work and the coarse roots, too. You can grow a very large plant in a very small container if the roots have been well managed and the lion's share of the rootage is fine. You can also grow very small plants, even seedlings, in very large containers if the soil is fast (free-draining and well-aerated) enough that the soil holds no, or very little perched water. I have just offered clear illustration that the oft repeated advice to 'only pot up one size at a time', only applies when using heavy, water-retentive soils. Those using well-aerated soils are not bound by the same restrictions. AL
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I garden in a high desert environment, the nights are in the 40's until mid july and never get out of the 50's. Its a 100 day season. So it takes forever to get the soil warmed up. I get far more production from container plants, its not even close. I make my own 'potting soil' mix using all different sizes of pine bark from beetle-killed trees, perlite, pond-bottom soil and Azomite for trace stuff, charcoal I've sifted out from my wood stove, compost, styrofoam packing peanuts - what ever. Keeping in mind that drainage and aeration are crucial. And every fall I dump it out on a concrete slab, eyeball it to see if it needs more structure as the bits disintegrate, and this year I'll solarize the lot in trash bags to sterilize it. Then I mix it up with what ever new perlite or bark bits it needs and off we go. I have 60-odd containers ranging from 5 - 15 gal. I can put 4 plants in the larger sizes. I soak compost overnight in a big tub and sorta strain that out and use the water to feed the plants - 3 times a season. Of course, your milage may vary.....
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john_in_sc
14 years ago
Typically, plants grow to the biggest size their roots can support given the cultural conditions... so a bigger pot = a bigger plant.... Eventually!

Here's how it works...

Some nurseries may "Pot up" plants that didn't sell this past year -- so you start with a 1-year peach in a 12" pot... Then a 2 year old tree in a 15" pot... then a 3-4 year old tree in a 5-7 gal pot... and on it goes.... Unfortunately, they never have the chance to really stretch out their roots and grow big and strong... They gotta stay in that little bitty pot... They get kinda stunted like this.

But.. When you get a giant tree in an itty-bitty pot... Did they forget to pot it up bigger last year? Was it just extra-vigorous? Were those trees sitting around for 3 years and they finally clearanced them off?

When you get a little tree in a big pot... Did they just pot it up? Does it look root bound at all (Do you find a little bound rootball up inside a giant pot full 'o dirt?)

Also consider that some plants need a deep pot for deep tap roots (Pecans, Hickory, and Chestnuts are good examples).... while others need very shallow pots for very shallow root systems (like Azaleas and Dogwoods)....

So.. you when you see a dogwood in a deep pot -- take consolation that there won't be any roots in the bottom half of it..... and when you see a Pecan or Chestnut in a shallow pot... its tap root is bound up (Or cut) and it won't ever grow right.

Thanks

John
alyssia_FL
9 years ago
It may seem that one took almost 5 years to reply..if the 10 after the date = 2010.... but... just arrived at Garden Web

Should the original poster person read this.. r anyone else with a similar question.... see if this direstion may be an answer

Do not order plants (trees, shrubs, et. al.) just by thier container size.
Specify the size of the plant and if it should be in a container, box, BR (Bare Root), B&B (Balled and Burlaped), etc.

For example.
A low spreading plant. For example,
Juniperus horizontalus Wiltoni.
ask for say 3 Gal 15-18" spr (Spread)
An upright shrub. For example
Buxus microphylla x koreana Green Mountain
ask for say 3 Gal 18-21" or 24-28" B&B

Before you buy from a nursery or garden center...
look at the quality of the plants there.
Look at the quality they sell...
Evaluate the people who work there...
The care given the nursery and it's customers...
Select your source as well as your plant(s)
fireduck
9 years ago
John said it all....
forestandfarm
9 years ago
Just to further complicate things a bit...then you have root pruning containers. The nursery economics on these are different so you don't see a lot of them but if you can find them you are dealing with a horse of a different color.

The problem with many trees (especially the deeper tap rooted ones) is that root will j-hook or circle with traditional containers. Root pruning containers prevent this by air pruning the tap root causing early secondary and tertiary branching. Containers are upsized by about 4" per side when the roots fill the container and the pruning process begins again. You can end up with much bigger more vigorous trees in smaller containers this way. The biggest issue is that while the root system is much more efficient at collecting water and nutrients since there are many more terminal roots, they can only collect it from the area they reach. This means you generally need to provide supplemental water for the first year until the trees are well established and the roots reach well into the native soils.

Will all of the above posts are good information that apply to most container grown trees, I just wanted to point out an exception.

I've been using a root pruning container system in my basement to start long tap rooted trees indoors under lights in the winter and then keeping them for 1 or 2 growing seasons in larger air pruning pots before planting them. So far, I'm pretty impressed with the results but I only have a few years under my belt.
appleseed70
9 years ago
Keep in mind that sizes for nursery stock have no bearing on the size needed to fruit or the size they will need to grow healthy in. Trees in nurseries are notorious for being root bound. Their biggest consideration is how small a pot can I get away with and still have a salable product.

VERY true !!

Container size of purchased plants vs. actual plant size

Comments (7)

larry_gene

thisisme

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