Fish fert is mostly for N and N is to induce greater vigor. When trees are small, I like to get them to size as quickly as possible but once they are bearing meaningful fruit I am careful to not overstimulate vegetative growth with excessive N- damaging fruit quality and making trees and fruit more susceptible to pest problems.

Fall fertilization is not dangerous and is actually helpful to get N to the buds before mid spring and get growth to most vigorous start. It is late summer N that can sometimes postpone dormancy and hardening off that protects trees from winter damage. This danger is highly exagerated in the literature in my opinion as you get exactly the same results here when we have early summer drought and then soaking rain in mid-august. Some trees do get a late surge of vigorous growth which itself can suffer winter kill but by my observation the rest of the tree does fine.

I'd be curious of the observations of others on this point. This is one of many observations I've made over the years that makes me ever vigilant to expert BS even as I continue to go to pedigreed experts for certain kinds of advice.

Speaking of the advice of pedigreed experts, Cornell recommends a general application of 2 pounds N per 1,000 sq ft annually for general orchard maintenance if you are not doing a soil and tissue analysis kind of program.

Hman,

I see the same thing as you, but we've had mild winters here for several years (hasn't gone below zero, for at least the last four winters). My trees and berries grow fairly vigorously right up till fall. I've not seen any dieback, except in berry bushes, and then it's only tip dieback. I don't doubt winterkill is a real concern for colder climates, but for warmer zones it appears to be small potatoes. I do notice on peach trees, most of the fruit and vegetative buds on the late growing shoots (last 6 inches) seem to die. It may be those buds don't harden off enough.

On the year I got that late rain after drought it was the Jap plums that really threw out a lot of growth that got some tip burn. Winter got down to about -15 F that winter as I recall. I have seen research that debunks the danger of early fall N application conducted by Carl Whitcomb who recommendes N applications in the fall while trees are still in leaf (ornamental trees). I have read of commercial orchards doing the same thing because it can be hard to get the N into the trees in Spring- especially when its wet. The idea seems to be to get the N to the fruiting buds to feed the surrounding leaves at the most critical period. This is why they often add ureah to pre-bloom sprays.

How long does it take to get the fertilizer to the tree roots and have the tree benefit from it harvestman?

I just applied the fish fertilizer a couple days ago, but it got about an inch of rain. Does the rain help or hurt the fish fertilizer?

And am still not clear on your advice. Should I keep fertilizing after the leaves are all off in the fall or just fertilize earlier spring next year in Feb or March?

Don't fertilize after leaf fall with Nitrogen unless it's slow release. Some rain is helpful, soggy cool soil is not- I'm not sure now what form the N is in fish fertilizer but my recollection is that it is pretty quick so it should benifit your trees this spring surge. Next time skip the fish and give them a couple quarts of your own urine about a week before they show green.

Late fall is for adding lime if needed. Apples, pears and anything that gets most of its annual growth out of the spring surge won't get much extra bang out of summer N. Indeterminate growers like peaches and Jap plums probably will.

use 0,20,20 after first leaf in spring, is what I do. or 10,10,10 excess nitrogen can cause fruit drop in some trees so be careful. especially with Jap persimmons

You keep adding all that phosphorous without any diagnostic based info and you're likely to to create a serious mineral inbalance. Once it's down you can't take it back.

Generally the N is to get the trees established- after that applications should be based on either leaf analysis meshed with soil analysis or on careful visual observation.

I actually never neeed to add any P at all at almost all sites.

When using urine on trees, how much water do I add to dilute it? Is urine good for berries as well?

If urine works that is great. Can save the money for the stinking fish slop. Do you happen to know how the urine compares to fish fertilizer? The fish is 5-1-1