If you can successfully graft pecan, persimmon will be a walk in the park. Simple bark graft works fine - and is what I do - but I've also done just simple whip grafts with 100% success. Aftercare is the most critical part of the deal - persimmon is adamant about pushing growth below the graft, and it's imperative to check - almost daily - and rub off any rootstock shoots as soon as they appear. They do need some heat to callus in, so I do all my persimmon grafts after the rootstock is pushing vigorous growth, and the bark is slipping well. Not sure about when to harvest scionwood in CA - I cut mine in Feb/early March here in KY. cuznfloyd makes a good point about hardiness - some of the Asian persimmons that work well in CA may not be sufficiently winter-hardy, but...nothing ventured, nothing gained. Astringent types appear to be generally more cold-hardy than the non-astringents.

Frances, Saijo, "the very best one" is a medium-size fruit, 1/3 lb, oblong conical, four-sided with deep grooves and orange skin. Pollination is constant (self-fertile). Fruit becomes very soft after astringency disappears. Mature height 20 ft and spread 10ft. Cold hardy to zone 6 (-10F). Starkbros is a decent nursery and has a good customer service (if your tree died, they will replace it). Here are other persimmons if Saijo does not work out for you. NON-ASTRINGENT VARIETIES Fuyu (fuyugaki means "winter persimmon") is a large ½ lb round, flat fruit that ripens to a deep red. It is of excellent flavor and long shelf life. The tree is vigorous and spreading with no male flowers, but some parthenocarpic ability. Pollination assures good fruit set. Unfortunately, several varieties have been sold as Fuyu or Fuyugaki with fruit of varying quality. The real Fuyu is incompatible with D. lotus rootstock. This is the most planted variety in Japan and the one that holds the most commercial promise here. Jiro is an old cultivar. The fruit is slightly larger than Fuyu, oblate and characteristically segmented by eight longitudinal grooves, four of which are more prominent and pass from the fruit apex to calyx. This variety is a pollination constant. The skin is yellow-crimson, sometimes uneven; the flesh is of excellent quality. Ichikikeijiro is an early maturing bud mutation of the Jiro with excellent fruit quality. The tree vigor is weak, growth habit is dwarf and spreading with medium fruit set and only female flowers are produced. Fruit stores well so it is a promising commercial cultivar. Honagosho ("flower of the Imperial Palace") is an excellent old variety, medium, yellow fruit 1/3 lb of excellent flavor and good storage which ripens late. The tree is vigorous and upright and has some male flowers so it can be used for pollination. Izu is a seedling of Fuyu x Okugosho. Fruit is medium size 1/3 lb, oblate, mottled orange red skin and pale orange flesh. Pollination constant. Low yield. Suruga. Seedling of Hanagosho x Okugosho, the fruit is large ½ lb, orange-red, very sweet and even better than the Fuyu with a long shelf life. The tree is vigorous, upright with good fruit set and produces only female flowers. Shogatsu is a large, sweet fruit, ripening to deep orange-red. The tree is medium size and spreading and produces many male flowers. Fruit set is medium. Quality is not as good as other varieties. It is an excellent pollinator. Hanafuyu, "Winter flower", obliquely rounded, large ½ lb sweet, juicy, reddish-orange color fruit. Tree is dwarf. ASTRINGENT Sheng. Similar to the Hanagosho but smaller, dwarf tree size. Tanenashi is an early variety introduced in the USA. It is the most common variety available in Florida. The fruit is seedless, conical and of excellent taste. Hira-tanenashi, "flat seedless", the fruit is large, flat, sweet, with four sides and four shallow grooves and the skin is tough, glossy, orange-red, the flesh is pale yellow orange with poor shelf life. It is the second most popular in Japan. Pollination is constant. Very cold hardy (fully dormant could withstand up to -40F). Great Wall is a very early ripening Chinese variety with a small, very sweet fruit discovered by explorer J. Russell Smith. The tree is cold-hardy. Glombo is a giant, conical fruit, 1 lb, of excellent taste. The tree is very productive. Yamato Hykume is an elongated, conical, pretty fruit. The flesh turns chocolate with pollination. Okugosho is medium-sized, round and orange with inconsistent astringency loss. Homestead is a small, conical, orange-red fruit with good taste. The tree is a good and consistent bearer. Hachiya is the most popular California persimmon. The fruit is large, conical and orange-red. The tree is spreading. Galley is an excellent pollinator. The fruit is small, conical and of fair quality. Korean is medium-sized, flat, orange and sweet. The tree is productive and cold hardy. Kung-Sun-Ban or Kyungsun-Ban-Si is similar to the Korean and is a showy tree. Peiping is similar to the Korean, but the tree is dwarf and fruit smaller. Tamopan is a large fruit shaped like the acorn cap on the top end. The tree is very ornamental. The fruit has fair flavor. Giant Tamopan is a very large tamopan(1 lb) bred by Dr. R.T. Dunstan using colchicine. Smith's Best is a compact, densely-branched, small prolific tree found on the farm of J. Russell Smith who was the first to popularize the persimmons. The fruit is small-to-medium and of high quality, chocolate-colored flesh. Tecumseh is small-to-medium and of excellent quality. San Pedro is deep orange, oblate fruit of excellent quality. Tony

The astringent persimmons are generally the sweetest. You just have to know when to eat them. Also some cultivars are much more astringent than others. The winterset can actually be eaten directly off the tree (when soft), while others such as the Triumph cannot. You probably either had the Hachiya or the Triumph which are both more astringent than the winterset. The problem with the persimmon here in our area (broward/dade) is that we have a dearth of chill hours. There are very few cultivars that I know of which are productive this far south, and they all tend to be astringent (saijo, triumph, winterset, tanenashi). I have been told that the hana fuyu (non astringent) will produce satisfactorily here. However, the normal fuyu is better suited to central/northern florida. Lastly, the hardest bit with us fruit tree extremists enthusiasts is patience. Even grafted trees require several years to be productive, and flavor can also change as the tree becomes established. Moreover, many tastes are acquired, and sometimes it takes some trial and error to figure out when a fruit is fully ripe. So, it's always a good idea to give a tree at least 3 years in the ground and at least 2 seasons worth of fruiting before giving up on it. Jeff

Willyt, thanks for your input. I am so sorry to hear you have a problem with your persimmon trees. Have you been able to determine what 'zapped' them and caused the die back? Persimmons are not known for die back, such as pear trees which are prone to fire blight, but have been said to be pretty much care free trees. I googled Oriental persimmon tree diseases and found this: "Pests and Diseases: Persimmons are relatively problem-free, although mealybug and scale in association with ants can sometimes cause problems. Ant control will usually take care of these pests. Other occasional pests include white flies, thrips which can cause skin blemishes and a mite that is blamed for the "brown lace collar" near the calyx. Waterlogging can also cause root rot. Vertebrate pests such as squirrels, deer, coyotes, rats, opossums and birds are fond of the fruit and gophers will attack the roots. Other problems include blossom and young fruit shedding, especially on young trees. This is not usually a serious problem, but if the drop is excessive, it may be useful to try girdling a few branches. Over watering or over fertilization may also be responsible. Large quantities of small fruit on an otherwise healthy tree can be remedied by removing all but one or two fruit per twig in May or June." And: "Japanese Persimmon Pests And Diseases "There are few insects or fungous diseases which need cause the American kaki-grower serious concern. The Mediterranean fruit-fly (Ceratitis capitata Wied.) attacks the fruit in Australia, but this insect has not yet made its appearance in the United States. A few scale insects are occasionally found in the kaki orchards of California and Florida, but the attacks of none have proved serious. Hume writes as follows with reference to Florida: "The worst enemy of persimmon trees, and the only one worthy of note, is the flat-headed borer (Dicera obscura), a native insect. The adult is a hard, metallic beetle, about five-eighths inch in length. It lays its eggs in rough-barked places in the crotches of the tree, or in wounds made in pruning or resulting from injuries of any kind. The young borers hatched from these eggs bore through the bark, work between the bark and wood, later boring into the wood. The larvae when well grown are about one inch long, white, with broad, flat heads and round bodies. That they are at work in a tree may be known by the discolored bark and by gum oozing from the trunk or branches. Cut away the bark with a sharp knife or chisel and destroy them. Paint the wounds thus made with good, thick, white-lead paint. Carefully paint all wounds when made, and scrape the rough-barked places on young trees. By careful attention to wounds on the trees, they may be prevented from entering, and the trees will live to a good old age." Do you think borers might have been the problem? I searched for a picture of the flat-headed borer (Dicera obscura, but Google didn't have one.