To- Densise: I'm sorry but I didn't seem to get you email...maybe gardenweb was being goofy and didn't forward it? Would you please resend the info if you are still interested? Shanoncl and Chris, Look for an email sometime soon Ohh and Chris, I would recommend nicking the outer coat so you can actually see a bit of the white internal embryo of the seed. I would use a wood/metal file or coping saw blade so water can actually get through the coat, although I haven't actually tried to sprout these guys last fall so this is all speculation based on other seeds with hard coats like lotus which need to be nicked...Sandpaper *may* work but I have a feeling it would take a while to actually get through. Dorisl-Did you read the book "the ghosts of evolution", If not I'd recommend it. It has all kinds of other fun plants like the Kentucky coffee bean tree which are missing their Pleistocene large mammal dispersers http://www.amazon.com/Ghosts-Evolution-Nonsensical-Ecological-Anachronisms/dp/0465005527 Anybody still interested in trading? I'd really like some new seeds :)

i'd love to get some of yourcoffee tree and chestnut seeds, i've just collected a fresh assortment of tree seeds such as dawn redwoods, ginkos, redbuds, and a couple others, but what my be of best interest to you is the oaks. we have a 2 acer forest here (part of a much larger forest) full of oaks, mixes of burs, swamp white, red and hybrids, the deer love the acorns, the last time i was out collecting they were all around. Thanks

Can't address a question about KY Coffee tree, but I have 4 mature (40+ years old) Silver Maples in my rear garden and I have many shade tolerant plants growing under them, including, but not limited to, Native & Evergreen Azaleas, Camellias, Hydrangeas, Japanese Maples, Dogwoods, Hollies, Hostas, Ferns & Spikemoss, Epimediums, Helleborus, Asarum, Heuchera, Iris japonica, Cypripedium, Calanthe, Trilliums, Pieris japonica and many native spring flowering perennials and terrestrial orchids. I constructed raised beds about 5-6 inches deep under them and began planting about 15 years ago. When I encounter a large root, I move the planting hole to avoid it. When I fertilize or irrigate, I insure that the entire area under the canopy of the tree is treated, which alleviates the problem of tree root strangulation. While Maples are credited with a voracious appetite for moisture, many of the largest, most robust plants in my garden grow there, without any extraordinary application of water. Note-When constructing raised beds under any tree, it is recommended that their depth be limited to Rb

I think whaas is correct. Can't quite remember where I was when I saw some nice older Serbian spruce. I think it was the Minnesota Zoo on the south side of the Twin Cities. They had some shelter with mature trees around them. But when I tried growing Serbians in wide open areas some years ago, three quarters of them either fried out in the winter wind or ended up with continually stunted growth. As far as Kentucky coffee, I haven't tried any cultivars except Espresso. Too many of the Espresso ended up with die-back or trunk cankers so I've stuck to only growing plain old regular Kentucky coffee so far. I think the hardest part about growing in Minnesota is that most tree cultivars being sold come from a seed source someplace warmer than here. And if a tree doesn't like how dry the winter air is here or what the soil is like in this region, then it doesn't matter what zone the tree is reportedly hardy for. I think Kentucky coffee seeds are a neat tree characteristic. But I am also not a person who wants a tree for shade and then whines about how messy they are.