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Fruit & Orchards

Grafting apple trees for fist time - questions

12 years ago

As my first grafting attempt, I have some M27 rootstock to graft apple scion on for pot culture. Any tips for a total novice? If I understand correctly, the best would be a whip and toung graft. How far above soil line? What should I do if scion and rootstock diameters do not match exactly?

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Comments (6)

jrm1504
12 years ago
We try to plant all of our trees with the bud or graft union 4-6" above the soil line to keep them from scion rooting.
marknmt
12 years ago
If the two are close but not exact, match one side as perfectly as possible- don't try to compromise by getting the scion centered.

Whip and tongue is a great graft. But if you find yourself not doing well with it a cleft is a little easier when starting out and also very strong.

I thought the video I'm linking below gave a fair demonstration on whip and tongue. I found the link here on the board a day or so ago so you may have already seen it, or even posted it! But here it is, FWIW. Also, today's conversations had lots of good information, so don't miss those.

Here is a link that might be useful: Whip & tongue bench grafts (Kuffell Nursery)
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In the spring of 2012, I attempted to graft a Pear scion onto my apple tree using Winter Banana Apple as an inter stem. (All of he grafting i do is "Whip and Tongue" grafts wrapped in grafting tape. I then coat the wrapped union with grafting wax) The parent branch was a Winesap Apple branch with a grafted Winter Banana Apple scion from a few years before. (I actually have two of these paired branches.) I then attempted to graft two "Kieffer" Pear scions onto my two Winter Banana Apple inter stems. The "Kieffer" Pear scions started to grow, but died a few weeks later. This spring (2014) I attempted to graft this Apple / Pear union again using the same Winter Banana Apple inter stems. I had just enough branch on my Winter Banana branches to try this experiment one more time. This time around, I used "Sunrise Pear" scionwood. The grafting was a screaming success! (I had enough "Sunrise Pear" scionwood to graft two branches onto my apple tree, and two more onto an ornamental pear. All four pear grafts were a success!) I have no idea why this experiment failed in 2012 and was a success in 2014. I do not know if it had to do with the pear variety used, or if it had to do with environmental circumstances. I will re-post in 2015 with an update. There are a few different treads on this subject so I will be re-posting on those threats also. Below are pictures taken on 07/27/2014.
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It may have come from Europe, of course. I have heard that claim and read it as well in "Ecological Fruit Production In The North" by Hall Beyer and Richard. In this book they recommend restoring old apple trees by training them to this shape. When I began my business 20 years ago I used their method as a guide and began my mission of transforming hundreds (probably thousands by now) of old apple trees into apple factories. In this book it is called "The Swiss Method". The trees I generally employ it on are huge old seedling root-stock trees, but I've recently begun training some younger trees to the shape because some varieties just seem suited for it. Ginger Gold is an early GD type (much snappier) that really wants to weep that I'm training this way and on my own property I train my Fuji this way because it's the only way I know to reliably get annual cropping from it and also keep it's rediculous vigor under control (the 2 issues are related). You can join NAFEX and check out that book from their library or order it on-line. If you give me a FAX# or your address, I can probably find a print of the chapter about this method. You will have to translate it from converting old trees to training young ones, but it won't be hard.
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"...I'm guessing those get separated out at nurseries, right?..." I think I'd contact the supplier about these questions. Their practices may not be universal. "Any reason not to heel them in in containers to allow for easy removal?" Possible issues include drainage problems, root system formation disadvantages, increase in planting labor due to necessity of addressing distorted root system, and problems removing the container if roots grow out of the bottom. I'm not saying not to use containers, but I did want to mention some possible disadvantages. "...I know I'm supposed to leave a "mother limb" anyway..." I've never heard of the term "mother limb". If you are talking about a central leader, most fruit production pruning methods result in the termination of the leader. "I'll seal up any cuts, but is there much risk of seriously injuring the tree by pruning it back very heavily?" NO!!! Never (well, almost never) seal a pruning cut or wound, except when grafting. Sealing around grafts (for some techniques, is imperative). "Lastly, we have large mess of an ancient apple tree in the backyard that hasn't been kept in any way for decades." Here's my recommendation on that...Search the fruit forum for Harvestman's discussions on this topic, and/or email him for more info. I disagree with him on many topics and sometimes find discussions with him rather difficult (He enjoys being the contrarian, even when discussing fairly well settled matters), but renovating old fruit trees is the one topic in which he may be the most knowledgeable of anyone on GW.
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sautesmom Sacramento
12 years ago
I only do cleft grating, and after a couple of years of practice, I now get almost 100% takes on apples. (about 90% on pears, plums about 60% and peaches I don't want to talk about LOL)
My advice:
Absolutely use parafilm, it made a HUGE difference in my grafting;
Make sure your slices on the scion and the host are sharp--I use a razor blade;
NEVER let the scion cuts dry out--immediately stick it in your mouth or a glass of water after cutting and until placing on the host;
Tightly wrap it in and tie it off (I use green stretchy garden tape) not only so there is good contact of the cuts, but because it is SO frustrating to brush up against your tree and see you just knocked your nicely-growing scion off!

Carla in Sac
pylot
Original Author
12 years ago
Thanks everyone for your advice. I still have one question. Should I try grafting first a little higher (say 7" off the ground) so if it fails I can cut the top off and try again? Or should I just try budding below the main graft as a backup? Any input is appreciated! :)
marknmt
12 years ago
I'd be inclined to graft a little higher than that even, say 12", and I'd sneak in a bud just because I could and it's cheap insurance.

By the way, I agree completely with what Carla said, with the added thought that while cleft and W & T are good grafts there are a lot of people who do very well with bark grafts also.
steve_in_los_osos
12 years ago
The local CRFG folks insist that apple grafting is the easiest of the lot--almost bullet-proof. They do a program with high school students in the area every year and many, many little apple trees result from kids who have probably never even seen a tree :-)

Cleft grafting is simplest and, as already noted, you only have to line up one side. Just be sure to agonize over that alignment. If you have really small scion wood, you can always put two pieces in, side-by-side, again matching up both outside cambium layers as closely as possible with the rootstock. If both take, you wait a bit to see which is most vigorous and clip the other off.

I also second the advice to "graft high". And keep your leftover scions in the refrigerator as a back-up.

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