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Fruit & Orchards

Fruit trees that require cross polination

12 years ago

I just ordered 5 dwarf fruit trees for my mini orchard. It didn't even occur to me that some of them may require cross polination. I only ordered one of each variety with the exception of the apple (one yellow, one red)

I purchased an Alderman Plum, a Bonanza Peach, and a Bartlett Pear. Will these three produce okay with just one of each tree?

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Comments (12)

spartan-apple
12 years ago
diannelmt:

alderman plum was brought out by the University of Minnesota. Jap x american plum hybrid. It does need to
be cross pollinated. Toka is the universal pollinator for
all the Jap x american plum crosses.

Bartlett pear can produce some fruit if not cross pollinated but not many. Pears require cross-pollination.

Peaches are self-pollinating.
carolync1
12 years ago
MOST peaches are self-pollinating. Self-pollinating properties of Bartlett may vary with climate, apparently. Many recommend planting Japanese/American hybrid plums very close to pollenizer varieties. Some people recommend 100% wild American plums (See discussion in Fedco catalog). Toka is frequently recommended as a pollenizer, too.
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Thank you all for your comments. Mark, you are probably the closest to me in climate, although I think you are wetter overall and average a little warmer in winter than I am. I live in a giant rain shadow with generally low humidity, and I'm east of the Divide and have noticed that many (though by no means all) of the real arctic blasts seem to plunge down east of the Divide, leaving me in the frigid air while western Montana and Idaho stay relatively balmy. But, then the beauty of these valleys is that they get a batch of cold air and it just hangs around while the chinook zones start bouncing between +50 and -20, so that is a benefit even if eternal cold gets old. Seems the wisdom in my area is that if you aren't growing apples, it won't survive the climate. But, I've also found so many things that won't grow here that someone is growing successfully. They may get winter killed every 15 years and have to replant, or maybe in 25 or 50, but if you aren't growing commercially, I think it is worth trying and am prepared to occasionally replace trees after a bad winter if they are otherwise productive. I've seen St. Lawrence's site and have actually bought some pear trees from them several years ago. One of the trees has had fruit a couple times now and it is doing well. The others have bloomed, but never set fruit, so I grafted another variety to it this past spring to hopefully get a good nearby pollen source for cross pollination. My black walnut was a seedling I dug up from a grove in a little valley at the base of the mountains about 45 miles away. It was a few hundred feet in elevation lower than me, but I'm out in the flats and still at a low elevation--only 4,500 feet. I've noticed with native trees that only a few hundred feet in elevation can make a real difference in which ones grow wild and which ones don't, although the ones that don't can still usually be successfully grown at a bit higher elevation if transplanted, so I always wonder if I might be crossing an elevational line in trying things that tend to be marginal anyway. Anyway, I had gotten the impression that black walnut was the hardiest, so started with it. Now I'd like to experiment with some of the others, but since they grow to be pretty big trees, I can't do too many and still avoid underground drains or power lines above or interfere with areas outside the yard. Anybody know whether they are compatible to graft onto each other? That would be less space intensive, and I certainly would like to find out if I can get a carpathian type walnut to survive since I like them better than the black walnuts for eating.
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First-off, impressive as ALWAYS, Kiwifruit! I should have thought to drop you an email. Btw, I think you said you were looking into picking-up a certain book (forgot the subject matter) a few months back that I should drop you an email for your review of it - maybe that wasn't you? I didn't know that chokeberries, pears, and mountain ash could cross with serviceberries (just knew that serviceberries chould be used as rootstock for them). What I gather from what you've written, even if hybridization occurred between the various native hawthorns, various native blueberries, between pear-serviceberry-[some]chokeberries, etc. these would likely be infertile donkies. I guess that apple orchards have made it impossible to know if your average crab apple (such as Malus coronaria) doesn't have some Malus x domestica in their lineage since they hybridize, or would the union between M. coronaria nad M. x domestica result in a sterile hybrid? Kiwifruit, I don't want to do embryonic rescue, since I don't want any native/non-native hybrids. As for sterile hybrids, I can deal with that; i.e. say if my Sorbus americana (American mountain ash) hybridized with my pears - at least the offspring would be sterile and I will not risk diluting the gene-pool of my native Aronia spp. and Sorbus americana plants. I don't mind non-natives crossing with non-natives, such as with pear types, as I will not be breeding non-natives, just having them for fruit. You say that different chromosome numbers and sterile hybrids would be the biggest problem - well, I would not mind sterile hybrids that are easily identifiable as hybrids (since they will not be mistaken for a distinctive native, but rather a hybridization between native/non-native), but I don't know what is meant by different chromosomes counts? John & theloud, Well, although I will be doing controlled (amateur-level breeding), I wouldn't exclude the benefit of having random chance seedlings pop-up in the woods and meadow should the fruits be superior. So, in this case, I would highly prefer to KNOW that there is not ANY realistic chance that native/non-native hybridization has occurred. theloud, Although Fragaria virginiana is a parent of the common garden strawberry, that doesn't mean that this was a natural union, etc. Thanks, Steve
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All members of the genus Malus can freely cross breed these Include : mountain ash, hawthorn, apples , flowering crab apples, and about 20 others. the edible quince,Japanese quince,pear ,Asian pear, apple, crab apple can all crossbreed . but the F1 are disappointing .all raspberries ,dewberries, loganberries, mulberries , wine berries, black caps, blackberries can crossbreed. As to the rest 1. Grayleaf raspberry (R. ideaus spp. strigosus) vs. European common raspberry (R. ideaus spp. ideaus)? 2. The various American blackberries vs. the various European blackberries and native/non-native forced hybrids? 3. The various native plums with Prunus domestica or P. tomentosa (I think I read that P. tomentosa (Nanking cherry) will freely hybridize with P. pumilla (sandcherry)? they have crossed the sand cherry with the plum in the 1970's 4. The various native crabapples with Malus domestica/pumilla? 5. American mountain ash with European or Asian pear, or the quinces, or at least with European mountain ash? Same for chokecherries since, I think I remember, that Pytina/Aronia can hybridize with Sorbus americana. 6. The various native plums with the man-made plum hybrids?Luther Burbank crossed Beach plums with domestic plums to give them Hardyness 7. "The native plums with peach/nectarine or almond? yes available" 8. The native mints and onions with the European garden species.You can cross onions with onions and onoins with garlic ( shallots) but you can not cross them with leeks. 9. The native silverberries with non-native Eleagnus spp. (Russian olive, Autumn olive, goumi). 10. The native honeysuckles (Lonicera spp.) with the increasingly popular blue honeyberry/haskap (Lonicera k... forgot). AND NATIVE VS NATIVE: 1. Forb/herbs like the Agastache spp. within themselves, the Monarda spp. within them selves, and so on. It seems that there are not many natural intermediaries between species in the same region - yet, maybe which mixing members of a genus that are regionally exclusive of each other, the likelihood for chance hybridization is greater? For instance, are the various Rhododendron spp. of a given area unlikely to hybridize with each other and same of the blueberries of a sub-region, yet when you plant Rhododendron spp. and, respectively, blueberries with their cousin species from opposite coasts, will hybridization occur more frequently? You can cross high bush Rhododendron with azaleas and Pjs I which that there were an online resource cataloging natural compatibilities within familiar horticulture genus. Purpose: I don't want to plant any foreign plant near my natives that would be cross-fertile. I would plant Prunus tomentosa if only it wouldn't supposedly readily hybridize with P. bessyi. Thanks, Now can you answer this one for me loquats can be grafted onto pear trees but can they crossbreed with pears ?
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Randy31513
12 years ago
If you are out of room check with your neighbors to see if they have fruit trees or want a cross pollinator to match your trees.

Also Dave williams nursery I think has a video of planting more than one tree in the same hole.

Don't give up.
diannelmt
Original Author
12 years ago
Okay, I called the nursery and I'm hoping to modify my order (they have to call me back).

I'm adding an Asian Pear to the order as well as a Stanley Prune Plum.

They told me that these will help cross polinate the trees I ordered.

I hope they are right! I have just enough room for two more trees!
theaceofspades
12 years ago
Stanley is a european plum and Alderman is an asian. They have different numbers of chromosomes so no cross pollination at all. No big deal graft another asian plum into the Alderman next season.
carolync1
12 years ago
The Asian pear may bloom before Bartlett, too. Is it supposed to be a self-pollenizing variety? If so, you might want to cut a few branches when blooms are at the "popcorn" stage and refrigerate them (in a vase with water, lightly covered as with a plastic grocery bad) until your Bartlett blooms. Or you may need to graft in another Asian pear and/or another European pear if bloom times are too different where you live.

But this is a different problem than the incompatibility of Alderman and Stanley discussed above. The pears you ordered should cross-pollinate if they bloom at the same time.
diannelmt
Original Author
12 years ago
I'm hoping that the customer service rep knew what she was talking about when we modified the order.

She had additional info in front of her that was not on the website and seemed confident that we chose appropriate pollinators. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
diannelmt
Original Author
12 years ago
Uh oh, they weren't able to modify my order. The original trees have shipped.

I also ordered two apple trees which bloom at different times... an Arkansas black apple and a yellow delicious. So I'll need something to pollinate both of them, as well as the bartlett pear and the alderman plum.

I'm thinking of shopping locally since I can't add these new trees to my existing order and take advantage of the free shipping.

I appreciate the advice, any further suggestions are greatly appreciated... and BTW, I need dwarf trees.

I do have crabapples on my property and possibly an ornamental plum, will they help at all? I'm on 14 acres in the country so I have no idea what the neighbors have or what might be growing in the woods either.
lucky_p
12 years ago
AB and YD bloom periods may overlap sufficiently, and if you have ornamental crabs on the property, there'll probably be plenty of pollen (provided you have pollenators - bees, etc., present) to get the job done.
As carolync1 indicated, you could even develop some grafting skills and graft additional varieties into your Bartlett to provide cross-pollenization sources down the road, if you're limited for dedicated 'orchard' space on your 14 acres.
diannelmt
Original Author
12 years ago
Well, turns out I was able to modify my order after all. I exchanged the Arkansas black apple with an Empire so it will be compatible with my yellow delicious.

My concern now is with the plums. I guess that the Stanley prune plum and the Alderman won't pollinate each other?
carolync1
12 years ago
I think Spartan-apple and AceofSpades were right: you should consider getting (or grafting in) a Japanese/American hardy hybrid (like Toka) or a native American plum (you can keep it small through pruning) to pollenize your Alderman. Consider planting your pollenizer close to your Alderman. As far as I know, Stanley is self-pollenizing.
diannelmt
Original Author
12 years ago
I think that's what I'll do. I'll graft something to the Alderman.

It would be great if the Stanley was self pollenizing!

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