Sure be easier and more fun to start over with new trees of locally adapted named varieties in a better spot.

Hello Aseedisapromise.

The simple answer, since you are willing to go to a new tree, is to plant one which is resistant to fireblight. I'm partial to Liberty, but there are others. A quick Google search will put you on track, and you can bring a list of options back here.

I live in Montana, so what works here should work in Rapid or thereabouts, and my Liberty has been happy. The fruit is comparable to a Mac's.

Your seedlings are charming- I like to imagine that they all grew from the same discarded apple core. That said, those more knowledgeable than I on this forum will probably advise you to replace them and put your energies to better use. I'd listen to 'em.

Still, myself, I'd probably pick the one tree out of the five that I really liked and butt my head against its wall until it drove me nuts and I finally took it out.

Plant the disease resistant tree, though.

Good luck!

M

I'd get rid of it. Find a variety that will work in your climate and go with something that is highly fire blight resistant (does that exist)?

I have some problems with 2 varieties i put in before i knew what to look for. I might have to remove both of them if i can't get the problems under control. I live near some huge orchards that i think isn't helping the situation.

This link from Purdue might be useful to you. I copied off a little but the entire article is worth your time, I think. (Sorry for the poor formatting!)

http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/BP/BP-30-W.pdf

Table 1. Fire Blight Resistance of Apple Varieties

Highly Resistant
Jonafree, Melrose, Northwestern Green-
ing, Nova EasyGro, Prima, Priscilla,
Quinte, RedFree, Sir Prize, Winesap

Resistant
Dutchess, Empire, Red Delicious, Gold-
rush, Haralson, Honeycrisp, Jonagold,
Jonamac, Libery, McIntosh, Northern
Spy, Novamac, Spartan

Susceptible
Beacon, Cortland, Fuji, Gala, Golden
Delicious, Granny Smith, Honey-
gold, Idared, Jonathan, Lodi, Monroe,
Mutsu (Crispin), Paulared, Rome Beauty,
Wayne, Wealthy, Yellow Transparent,
Zesta!

Apple rootstocks
Resistant
B.9* Geneva 11 Geneva 30 Geneva 65
M.7 M.27* Novole Robusta

Susceptible
Alnarp 2, Bemali, Bud. 9*, Bud. 118, Bud.
140, C.6 (interstem) M.9, M.9 (inter-
stem), M.26, M.27* MM.106, MM.111,
Mark, Ottawa 3, P.2, P.16, P.

Hope this helps. I found the link with a Google search.

M

When you're picking a variety, don't use just one source to determine whether or not a variety is resistant to a certain disease. A few of the ones in the list above fall in an entirely different category in many other lists.

When I picked my apples, I made a list of possibilities and researched many sources. I made a big spreadsheet so I could better see what everyone was saying about each variety. I weighed sources closer to my location more than those in totally different climates, but I also took consensus into consideration. If I had 10 sources and 8 or 9 said it was resistant or highly resistant but 1 or 2 said it was susceptible, I would consider it resistant. Sometimes the first or second source I looked at might have been the oddball that gave a rating not in line with everyone else. Regional differences and many other factors make a difference, but sometimes I wondered if some of the entries weren't just data mistakes of some kind. I have found examples where 5 or 6 university studies and 3 or 4 commercial sites would give a rating of highly resistant; then one lone grower would rate it susceptible.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to answer and even look things up for me! I have looked up resistant varieties in the past and noticed that different people rated trees differently. I also found that some people think most of the very resistant varieties aren't very good to eat. I did get three kinds of locally grown apples at the sort of farmer's market here last fall, so I could taste some for myself. I didn't like the Cortlands or Libertys as well as the Haralsons. They had a nice tang to them. They were bigger apples than the others, and crisper than the Cortlands. Size may have been related to how they were grown, so I don't know for sure, but some apples are generally bigger than others all other things being the same. I am driven by the size issue because although I have been able to get my apples "nice" enough to eat out of hand, but my kids want them to be big as well. Marknmt, how big are your Libertys? Maybe yours are bigger than the ones I bought, and maybe mine could be, too. I also talked to the nursery guy where I bought the Prairie Spy tree, and he told me that of his trees, he has had more problems with the Haralson getting fireblight than the Prairie Spy trees. Now he could have been just telling me that so I wouldn't think the tree had it before I bought it, but it made me think. I was pretty discouraged by that conversation. I am encouaged by everyone's thinking that I should try again. I may try Brandon's spreadsheet method of comparison, which seems more useful than my several-lists-on-separate-sheets-of-paper-with-no-sources-listed method. My dh is pro on removing four of the five trees, but I am in horror imagining the morass of sprouts from the stumps of the removed trees, but I guess I am in horror now with the tangle of branches that exists back there already, so that would be nothing new. Is there a way to deal with these sprouts that isn't really toxic? Would they die eventually if I was proactive about removing them? I had to dig down a ways to get rid of a green ash seedling growing in a bad place, and it wasn't even very big.

Thanks asiap

Hi again Asiap.

I haven't weighed my Libertys, but they are "decent sized"- bigger than what you'd find in a 5# bag of Fujis, Galas, or Deliscious at the grocery store, smaller, usually, than the big big guys. I would guess around 8-10 oz. or so. They tend to be crisp, sharp, juicy and flavorful, but ymmv. With good pruning and thinning one gets fewer apples but larger ones.

Our Liberty is also rootstock for several varieties I've grafted onto it- including Haralson and Prairie Spy. The PS is one of our favorite eating apples, but the Haralson hasn't fruited yet. The PS ran a little larger than the Libertys. The grafting thing might not be something you're up for, but it's fun, very doable, and gives you wonderful flexibility. It would be quite a project for your kids, for sure.

Some years are better than others for some apples, and it may be that if you had eaten your Cortlands or Libertys another year, or perhaps a week later or earlier than you did, you'd find them to be quite a different crittur.

I gotta warn you, this hobby can become quite possessive ...

Good luck,

Mark

What a lovely tree! If it were mine, AND if I liked the way the apples tasted, I would treasure it. And add a planting of four disease resistant apple trees in one hole on the other side of the driveway to balance it. Yes, pruning four trees (or five) in one hole is a challenge, but if you keep up with your summer pruning, doing a little each month, it shouldnt get too out of hand. DonÂt be afraid to whack off what is needed to drive the car under it, or change the driveway to a graceful curve around it. Normal is boring.

I spent about four hours today researching things on the web. One of the things I found was exactly what marknmt was saying: one source said that Libertys have a narrow window for picking time and that they can get an off taste and be mushy if left on the tree too long. Possibly this can be true for other varieties as well. How long does Liberty keep once you pick them? I think one source said 5 mo. refrigerated. That would be great! Also, a 1.5 inch diameter apple is par for the course on the tree(s) I have, so 8 oz. would be a monster to me. One site said that Liberty needs to be thinned or the apples would be small, so it sounds like that would need to be done. I also found a couple of references to the bacteria causing fireblight in some places becoming resistant to the streptomycin used agriculturally. So that doesn't sound good, but is probably inevitable. So, I'm not sure what I'll do with the tree(s) in the back yet, but I will try a new tree in the front. I'm not done with my spreadsheet, and now I have to do some research about sources for trees as well. If I decide in favor of a Liberty tree, I'll have to order it as the local nursery doesn't have it. They seem to have Northwest Greening, Haralson, and Haralred, and I can't remember what else, but not Liberty. I was also wondering if a standard tree is more resistant than a semi-dwarf? Then I have to weigh all the diffences between the two as well. I'm pretty sure I have the space in the front for either size. It's a big project, but I don't like losing things I plant, and don't want to get the wrong thing like I did last time. Thanks

asiap

Maybe it is seeing the photo of the existing tree in bloom, but I would hate to lose it if you are getting apples you like. It really doesn't look that big that you would have to devastate it to keep it. You might consider removing the trunks for the varieties that you don't care for and leave the one you like. Then take a look to see what it looks like. Due to the driveways on each side, you could also prune it to run branches either way from the trunk, but parallel to the driveways. Kind of make it two-dimensional instead of 3. Cut the stumps as low as you can for the ones you take out, then you can put spritz some Roundup on the new shoots that come up in the spring, and just keep them moved off if needed through the summer. Just don't get Roundup on the tree you keep.

Haralson is a nice large apple. One of my neighbors has it and a few years ago had an overload of apples, so I picked a few boxes of Haralson, McIntosh, and Jonathans. All the trees were loaded. The ground underneath was pure red with fallen apples, no sight of the ground through the fallen apples, and the trees were still loaded. Also, it was well into October without a really hard frost, so the apples were fully ripe and really delicious. I mention this because in eating the 3 varieties, I found the Haralson to have the least flavor. It was the biggest apple, but the McIntosh were the tastiest--lots of sweetness to counterbalance their normal tartness. The Jonathans were good at that point, but really a little over ripe. The Haralson was good, it just didn't have the full range of flavors the ripe McIntosh had, and it equaled the McIntosh storage over the winter.

While you should strive for resistance to the problem diseases in your area, don't let that become the driving force. Trimming fireblight as you have in the past works. You can also spray with copper to retard the infection and growth of fireblight, and there are other materials out there to help with control. In addition, tree care will help reduce the problem. A healthy tree is less likely to have severe problems than an unhealthy one. Combined together, you can manage the fireblight and get varieties you really like.

McIntosh is my favorite eating apple...when ripe. Its grown a lot around this area. I have one growing in my backyard, but hasn't fruited yet. They can go "mushy" later in the season, i don't think they store well unless you have the right equipment.

Pixie Crunch seems like an interesting apple, and is what i'd probably grow first if i didn't have any trees.

I think Liberty must be a better apple as grown in other parts of the country- I live in southeastern NY and almost no one likes it here. It's certainly not as good as Macoun-one of its parents, I think. Even if you like the flavor, it's a lousy keeper and mediocre cooker. Obviously not a natural first choice with that lack of versatility. I'd go with Melrose if you run with most resistant varieties.

Macoun is a wonderful apple here. I'll agree that Liberty apples are not the best keepers -a few weeks at best. But I've had good luck making pies with Libertys. May be that 40 years professional baking experience has helped me with that.

Liberty is a Macoun cross with one of Purdue's varieties, IRRC.

Given the disease issues I think Liberty can be a good choice, but I like Macoun better for eating, and Prairie Spy is excellent here too.

My Liberty is rootstock for about a dozen different apples. I suppose at any given time, if conditions are right, most of those would be blight susceptible. But timing is part of the issue, and at any given time some of the susceptible varieties might dodge a bad blight season. So I could have a variety or two that I might have to prune back severely, or even remove completely and replace later; I'd still have some harvest.

But Asiap, you should listen to Harvestman's vast experience over my naive enthusiasm. In fact, I'm wanting to pick his brain over Rhode Island Greening here in Montana (shouldn't be a long enough season, but it seems with global warming ...) but don't want to hijack the thread. I'll try to start that conversation later.

Good luck,

Mark

I am doing more and more looking. harvestman, I don't wonder if people just "like" the quality of what ever tree they can get to grow well. I can make pretty good pies and dry the apples from my crazy tree, but they aren't so good just to eat. I can sauce them, but they seem too mushy for me to enjoy just eating them. I haven't seen Melrose at many vendors. I did find it at raintree, and it sounded very good, but they said it was for zone 5. Now, some zone 5 things do well here in the banana belt of SD, but we have a short frost-to-frost period, so for something like a tree, I wouldn't go for things rated for zone five. I don't mind losing a perennial once in a while, but not a tree. I am betting that we have a smaller palette of trees to work with here than you do in SE NY. But I will take into close consideration harvestman's and beeone's talk about quality, because a tree that gave apples I didn't like to eat wouldn't be very good. I am wondering now how Freedom apples are. They are listed as having a lot of good qualities (disease tolerance, storage, vigor) on the St Lawrence Nurserie's page. It has Macoun as a parent. It sounds like mark has a good plan with trying out different varieties grafted to his Liberty tree. well, I'll keep looking and looking. Thanks, everyone.