Greetings! I'm afraid I don't have any of the seeds you're looking for, but quite a few of them are available from J.L. Hudson, Seedsman (see link below). Good luck! LianeNY Here is a link that might be useful: J.L. Hudson

Thank you Morz8 and Becky. This is looking hopeful...the link to the picture provided by Morz8 does look similar to mine, however I think that mine must be more mature (if mine are indeed Chelone.) Becky, if you could take a picture without too much trouble I would appreciate it. I'll take one of mine and try to post it directly to this forum. I still haven't been able to figure out how this is done yet :) One thing is for sure - the picture that I found on the Internet certainly is not Turtlehead. Just a warning to those ready to pull out unknown plants and going to the Internet for the last word. I've always told my friends that you don't know all of your plants - you just have to know all of your weeds. This might not be the case if these are indeed Turtlehead. Thanks for your help!

I wonder how common BC's are in my state (PA). I would really love to get some started around here. I bought a Chelone lyonii 'Hot Lips' at a local nursery and found out that I can start new plants from it by breaking off side shoots and stick them in water until they get roots. I want to plant about 20 of them, 20 of the Chelone glabra if I can ever get hold of some, and I'm also in the process of starting some Penstemon hirsutus. I might be doing all of it for nothing, though, if BC's only like a marshy environment. I wouldn't call our backyard marshy at all. I'm a little concerned about what I've read here in this thread. I get the idea that turtlehead and penstemon are kind of invasive. Is that right? Can I assume that that is because of the seeds dropping and if you deadhead it, that won't happen? I'm planting all of these things at the end of my milkweed patch (100 plants in it). Since Monarchs hold a special place in my heart and I like to raise them, I'd hate to see some other plant trying to take over the swamp milkweed patch. Btw, MaryAnn, it's good to hear that the BC's will also eat the C. lyonii. I hope that will be the case here too if I can somehow manage to get BC's here. I love reading thread about the BC. I don't know how I missed all the replies after I posted my reply. I'm glad this got bumped up! :) Cathy

Cathy, LOL, can this forum stand two of us? ;-) I'm in PA though. I wouldn't say that I know tons about butterflies either. I just got on here last year when I wasn't sure how to go about raising Monarchs. Everyone was so helpful. Ha, it's funny that you said you're always on the bluebird site. I'm on a birding site too, only I haven't had too much time to be on either forum lately. The Monarchs and garden really keep me busy. Wow, 200 butterflies?! That sure is a lot! Yes, Butterfly Weed is a nectar plants for butterflies, and it's also a host plant for Monarch caterpillars. Last year I had more cats on it than I do this year for some reason. The butterflies like my purple butterfly bushes. My Pink Delight isn't even blooming yet. I don't have white so don't know how that would do here. Sure, I would be interested in trading sometime soon. I'll email you when I get a chance to sit down and think. lol Thanks. Susan, I had a lot of luck with the butterfly weed last year but this year not many eggs are laid on it, which is maybe good because a lot of them that I got outside I got on there, but of course it might just be a coincidence, not sure. Honestly, I'm not sure what milkweeds are native to PA except for A. syriaca. Yes, from what I've seen so far, the turtlehead is going to look beautiful in the garden. I actually have it bordering (one whole plant...oooh! :)) my swamp milkweed patch. I plan on planting more there eventually but not this year. Like your coneflowers, mine haven't become a pest either. I can deal with pulling out a few dozen plants or even 50 or 100 that come up and I don't want them, but I'm 99% sure that I'm going to have a constant battle with the A. hyssop. Oh, I'm not sure if I get silvery checkerspots up here or not; I'd have to look it up. zebz, That's good to hear that your C. lyonii is doing well. I hope that your C. glabra does better. Baltimore Checkerspots don't hang out where I live either, but I planted the turtlehead hoping that they'll show up someday just like you planted them in the hopes of getting them. I have A. incarnata, A. tuberosa, and A. curassavica. The latter is the best one at getting Monarch eggs, and A. incarnata also got a lot this year just like last year. This year was the first year that I've had A. curassavica and I will be planting it again next year both outside in the flower bed that I have it in now and also in pots. I don't know if it was a rabbit or a groundhog that chewed off a bunch of mallow plants that I had planted. I looked one day and they were totally gone and they never did sprout out, so they're totally wiped out. Between the drought and the animals, it's a wonder anything made it. I had to do replacements of some things next year. Oh, we also have deer visit. Gardening certainly is a challenge. Cathy