I'm glad you asked because I'd also like to know. I've seen people on here talk about Chelone glabra for BC's but I can't recall anyone saying that they've had the cats on the Chelone lyonii. I don't know if anyone on here has ever tried it or not and what success anyone has had with it. I had wanted to get plants started here this year for the BC's but I'm beginning to wonder if I'm not supposed to have them. I had tried two different times since early winter to grow Chelone glabra inside and they didn't come up either time. I also bought some Penstemon hirsutus seeds and not many of those came up and they are such small plants that if they do live I can't imagine them getting big enough to put outside this year. I have English Plaintain but also wanted some other plants for the Baltimore Checkerspots. I'm sorry for not knowing the answer to your question. I hope someone on here can answer it and then we'll both know. I would love to get BC's here.
Cathy

Hot Lips is growing and thriving much better that the glabra here.

As I was researching chelone, I thought I saw that Tiger Swallowtails use lyonii, but I can't find that site again. Maybe I made it up in my head.

Oh Goody, finally a question I can answer!!!

As many of the forum members know, I'm rasing a brood of BC cats. They are happily eating English Plantain, Penstemon, and Chelone "Hot Lips."

I moved some onto the Hot lips from the plantain, because I wanted to see how well they'd do. They are eating happily and getting just as big as the cats on the other plants.

Tommorow I'll try to post a couple of pictures.

Maryann

Maryann is the local expert on the BC and has personal experience with this, so listen to her.

But also, the presentation I went to earlier this year specifically mentioned that "Hot Lips" was a species that outcompetes C. glabra and is not used by the larvae as hostfood.

So it may be the case, as with English Plantain, that the answer is regional: Hot Lips might only be a hostplant for the New England tribe, or might not be for only the Maryland tribe. Proceed with caution!

Jeff

wow, thanks Jeff...It's interesting to compare the regional preferences of this butterfly. I recently exchanged email with a Maryland BC expert named Mona Miller. She told me they also use goldenrod as a hostplant. This solved a puzzle for me because the original nest I found was holed up in a deformed goldenrod flowerhead. The internet certainly does lead to the exchange of interesting bits of knowledge..hehe..

I'm certain the plants I have are "hot lips" because for once, I kept the tag near the plant. And I can see how the late instar BCs are demolishing the plants. I bought these plants specifically for the BCs so they can eat away!

I also got two penstemon "Rhondo" and they are eating the heck out of one(they even eat the flowers), the other I put a safe distance away to see if the adults will use it for egg laying.

Zebz..where are you located....

maryann

Maryann, I'm in Northern Virginia.

Based on what Jeff said about Hot Lips outcompeting glabra, I think I'll move the Hot Lips to a new location. It is definitely overshadowing, and probably overwhelming, the glabra. I've been watching it take up more and more space over the last three years.

Oohh... NoVA. That's very cool, because until recently it was thought that the BC populations in Maryland were all in northern counties like Carroll and Frederick. But now, folk are taking a look in Montgomery Co. as well.

Anyways, if you're willing, you could try experimenting with the Hot Lips to see if the larvae will take it.

Jeff

Jeff, I don't have any checkerspots here, but planted the chelone a few years ago in hopes of attracting some. Even though I knew full well that Northern Virginia never sees any.

One can dream.

zee

I am doing a conservation project at a local regional park in Northern VA. I could not find Checkerspot stock in VA, so got permission/permit from the USDA to bring them from NY.

I will purchase some 'Hot Lips' and try it out. In the first year, they prefer the turtlehead still in Maryland and VA. In the second year, there is a long list of food preferences even Japanese Honeysuckle. In New England states, they will lay on English Plantain and Turtlehead. I'd bet this change in primary host plant preference is due to declining habitat. I've heard that the marshes in New England are on the decline.

I wonder how common BC's are in my state (PA). I would really love to get some started around here. I bought a Chelone lyonii 'Hot Lips' at a local nursery and found out that I can start new plants from it by breaking off side shoots and stick them in water until they get roots. I want to plant about 20 of them, 20 of the Chelone glabra if I can ever get hold of some, and I'm also in the process of starting some Penstemon hirsutus. I might be doing all of it for nothing, though, if BC's only like a marshy environment. I wouldn't call our backyard marshy at all. I'm a little concerned about what I've read here in this thread. I get the idea that turtlehead and penstemon are kind of invasive. Is that right? Can I assume that that is because of the seeds dropping and if you deadhead it, that won't happen? I'm planting all of these things at the end of my milkweed patch (100 plants in it). Since Monarchs hold a special place in my heart and I like to raise them, I'd hate to see some other plant trying to take over the swamp milkweed patch. Btw, MaryAnn, it's good to hear that the BC's will also eat the C. lyonii. I hope that will be the case here too if I can somehow manage to get BC's here. I love reading thread about the BC. I don't know how I missed all the replies after I posted my reply. I'm glad this got bumped up! :)
Cathy

Cathy and Mona,

I never really fully updated the success of my BC relocation experiement. I had a pretty overwhelming June and July...

The transplanted caterpillars overwintered well and succesfully
matured on the english plantain. They ate and when they were ready to pupate they wandered. I found them all over the garden and lawn. Many pupated and emerged. However, after seeing them for a few days, they were gone.

No eggs or little cats on either the turtlehead or the plantain.

I'd hoped for a breeding population.

Mona, nice to see you posting here..it's a great bunch of people.

The cats will eat Hot lips. I moved several of them to to plants to see. And they munched happily.

Maryann

Maryann, Well, that's good that they overwintered well, but darn it, I was so hoping too that you'd get a breeding population. That would be just great! I'd love to see various kinds of butterflies get re-established in places around the country. I wish so much that the butterflies wouldn't be losing their habitat. There are just so many people and with people come houses and all sort of buildings and roads and there goes more habitat lost. It's really sad. I don't know how I'd get BC's established here if they decide not to show up. If I'd only know where to go in the area to get them, but I don't even know if they're in my county at all. I'd definitely get some and bring them home and hope that they would do well. That's great to know that they will eat Hot Lips. So I guess you don't know about the penstemon and turtlehead being invasive then? Thanks for letting us know about the Hot Lips!
Cathy